Surprise AMA 10/06/2019

00:00 to 1:45:38

hi this is Charles Hoskinson broadcasting live from warm sunny Colorado it's a beautiful morning outside I just got back from my social and around the world and I'm having a quite a bit of fun so we went to Wyoming we went to Boston we went to Scotland went to Bulgaria Prague and Vancouver all in a very short period of time a ton of business from hackathons to meetings at Harvard and MIT to a lot of stuff about the incentives for the incentivize test that the two-year anniversary of card on oh I got to hang out Prague and see the community there and then finally good old Vancouver where I attend dtc summit which is an annual event so I figured now that I'm back here at Colorado and actually literally just got back and it meant home was gone so I said come here to the office and nice Sunday and let's have an AMA because we love you guys okay first things first there's been a fun NATO a foot storm crazy amount of fun floating around about Chordata delays the project is not mean well lead of course the expected requisite hit these videos have recently come out dredging up fake news and you know people who do that good for them never accomplished anything and they're not real people so the reality is project is in very very good shape we're moving fast Shelley is shipping this year the instead of eyes test n is the very first version of it you see to reiterate this because the crypto press seems to have missed it you have two options when you decentralize a system option a is just to immediately decentralize it throw it everybody to the Wolves and hope to god the is they figure it out and everything works or option B is you create a sandbox that gradually decentralizes and then that somehow has an impact on the main network so we chose the latter because it just simply makes more sense if we got something wrong if there's stuff we want to change we can do that rapidly and quickly without requiring coordinating a hard fork and also is the Galit area because this is new technology to you not to us we built that our partners built it so we know a lot about it but the general public does not so there needs to be a sandbox that gives people an opportunity to learn how to configure saying set up stake pools start building their business model build their brand convince people to delegate to them to understand how these dashboards work to give us advice and suggestions about things that they would want to see and again it makes a lot of sense to do that in a controlled environment where we can rapidly change things especially once we start fixing system level parameters to make it test up with high participation you basically allow people to stake and the stake rewards are real rewards so they carry over to me now so again we will be releasing blog posts the middle part of October specifically about how that snapshot is going to work how the incentivize test that's going to work what the software is going to look like and how you can participate we're already getting overwhelming participation with the network to test net which is another thing that was just apparently totally missed by the foot media and we have almost a hundred state pools running on that we have tons of issues that have been reported lots of cool back-and-forth sand conversations and we're learning a lot the community's learning a lot there's 2400 people in the State pulled channel and we've cut since we've released it probably more than five or six movie releases in ten days and we're planning on cutting another release probably on Monday and maybe another release throughout the week so we're rapidly updating the software rapidly fixing bugs learning a lot along the way so cardano's looking good the Haskell side is also looking good it's ridiculously difficult to build this type of stuff so of course they're taking their time but releases are coming down that pipeline as well but we have are fortunate to have both the rust and the Haskell side and we're fortunate to learn from both so the project is going well we're not missing deadlines we know what we're doing and you can publicly see that on the github there's more commits with our project than any other cryptocurrency project on market the credentials qualifications of our engineers are clear and it's clear to see the quality of software as evidenced by fact that 13 year old children and Wyoming were able to get steak nodes running on raspberry PI's so I guess if these youtubers and other people are saying that there's nothing there they're not as smart as thirteen-year-old kids from Wyoming although those kids in Wyoming are pretty pretty happy another thing is and this is from Jonathan Fernandez confused why Charles got fired so many times I have not been I took a buyout with bitshares because I couldn't work with Dan as for aetherium that story is very clear it was either for profit not for profit they decided to go not for profit and seven of the eight founders are no longer there at etherium only one is metallic the rest all went off and did what I did and created their own company and for example consensus decentral parity which is no longer even really working on a theory of much and so some of these companies are competing with the very project my entire argument is if we didn't put golden handcuffs on people they wouldn't stick around and we didn't so I was right you see people like to rewrite history and people like to say things but I'd like to remind everybody I've been working on cardano's since 2015 I've put years and years of my life here every single day showed up for my job and did my job we now have 200 people in Iowa okay a hundred of which are working every day on Cardinal and they work very very hard every day publicly transparently the work is there but I guess some people would just like to pay attention to fake news they'd like to pay attention to the the latest sycophant or provocateur of the week and they don't seem to understand that these are among the most complicated of protocols to implement and they're based upon peer-reviewed research meaning they didn't exist prior to our company inventing them there is no code we can copy there is no source base to fork from and we're doing very hard things and when you do very hard things based upon science and it's new occasionally you have issues if you don't believe that take a look at the Apollo program look at the pictures of the astronauts who burnt to death in the capsule look at the moon rover and the moon lander just literally months before the mission actually launched and how much difficulty they have controlling it they spent 10 years in a million people on that project these projects are of the same scale they involve millions if not billions of users they involve millions of different devices they involve very complex protocols that have to be designed upfront to be resistant against the smartest hackers and attackers in the world who have every financial incentive to break things and you can look no further than to EOS to take those to any other project that's had some issue somewhere to say that if you don't do things right I don't suffer the consequences the users of the system suffer the consequences the holders of the tokens suffer the consequence namely you so it's important that things be done in a systematic process it's important that thing to be done safely and this doesn't mean that people are incompetent it doesn't mean that people are prepared to abandon the project I these markets have brought out and frankly the worst in people and they've made people say do things and comment in things in ways that are so counterproductive you know I'm happy to collaborate I'm happy to discuss the science I'm happy to discuss the accomplishments that we have had we brought to market and I'm happy to discuss our vision for the future and how we're going to roll Cardno out but what I'm not happy to do is to sit every single day and watch people time and again make videos personally attacking our project the integrity of the project our ethics our beliefs our values and the accomplishments it's insulting if not to me then to the 200 people that work at IO HK who every day wake up and just want to do a good job and believe in a decentralized future so for the sake of the space you know we all have to take a set step back and ask ourselves why are we here what are we doing and what's the point of all of this if it's just to get rich believe me there's significantly easier ways to do that that are a lot less stressful if it's to change the world it's to actually give billions of people things that they don't have that once they have them it lifts them up out of poverty and makes their lives better well that's something that's sir that's a meaningful pursuit and it's a long road that will take decades to achieve so the project is swimming along we're doing great work I'm very proud of the great participation we're getting I'm proud of this community I'm proud of the progress that's been made I'm proud of seeing thirteen year old kids running notes I'm proud that we're able to actually have a two-way conversation about product features and we're able to get rapid releases and iterations I'm proud to see the fact that we submitted eighteen papers in the month of October in September to various academic conferences our research flow is speeding up not slowing down I'm proud that we've solved major problems in computer science that previously were open questions if they could even be resolved and I'm proud most that we're still here despite all the hits the ups and downs the issues we're still here we're still strong and we're still going to show up for work every single day so screw the haters love every vol the lovers and let's get to your questions and yes the moon lander happened the pretending did happen Charles is going into Clint Eastwood from Unforgiven when he drank whiskey yeah there we go killed my friend all right guys give me a good question and yes Verity is definitely focusing on polka dot if they're kind of scaling things down Charles you're leaving the card out of foundation right never been part of it we have a representative on the Cardinal foundation but we're just there to help rebuild the foundation and get it back where it's going and let me be very clear my intention with the Cardinal foundation has always been the same nothing has changed there will be a an interim board that's what Nathan Kaiser Domino and then meet our or interim people they're not there forever and their point is to hire new board number seven of them an executive director and get the finances the reputation brand and the structure of the foundation in good shape and then becomes a solely independent entity again so you know we were hoping for faster progress but Switzerland moves very slow and there was a lot of damage and things to clean up but we don't exert control we don't have control over the books or the finances and the foundation right now in its current state is in a recruitment mode and it's looking to hire more board members and it's looking to gradually turn itself into an execution unit for the ecosystem and we will start at the average-case side putting tremendous organizational pressure on the foundation to begin that board diversification second we're going to start putting tremendous pressure to begin working with us on the Cardinal improvement proposal process and working with us on full terror to ensure that by the end of 2020 the proper democratic elements are installed the proper folding mechanics are installed and there's a clear governance model for the entire ecosystem this is one of the core mandates of the foundation and I have a strong expectation that it will get done and if I believe it's going to get done it's going to get done Kurata was losing Charles like apples losing Steve Jobs you know I hear this rumor - Charles is retiring Charles is leaving he's going away I'm not going anywhere I love this job I love cryptocurrencies I love blockchain we're just getting to the good parts for years and years and years and years all we were doing is talking about a future if only we get together and if we only work together we will get this great beautiful future and now we finally have a situation where we actually have the technology and we actually have the market credibility and the resources necessary to be able to execute on the things we've been talking about since 2009 as an ecosystem why leave when you actually have a chance to see these things get executed but people conflate my statements about the need for decentralization and balance of power and checks and balances with this concept that well that must mean I'm retiring or leaving know if this ecosystem is to work we cannot have cults of personality we have to have process over people and no one entity can be so vital that if you remove that entity the ecosystem dies or is greatly compromised because everyone can be corrupted everyone has financial incentives that don't necessarily align with the incentives of the ecosystem and everyone can be in some way compromised regardless of their integrity or quit or killed if they can't be compromised so the only way we're going to get there - a decentralized future where things like social credit don't bother us is if we decentralize the ecosystem and the only way we're going to do that is by reminding everybody that it's a two-way relationship I can build every type of tool any type of voting system I can build any type of incentives model I can build any type of process but if the community doesn't follow them doesn't use them stays ignorant to them well then we're at Ground Zero because if the end of the day no decision will be made unless I make it or someone else makes it so this is my point and this is why we we as a project are so focused on reminding you think it's vitally important frankly the single most important characteristic of cryptocurrency everything else it's easy to get there it may take five years or ten years and lots of engineering and some science but there's an inevitability to scaling there's an inevitability to interoperability and inevitability towards better transactions that are smarter and better smart contract programming languages just like your phone is going to get better in ten years from now when you pick up that iPhone or that Samsung Galaxy it will be an order of magnitude better as a device than the device I have today you have today and we all know that the markets are aligned to produce something like that but there's no guarantee that for example the American election system will be higher-quality there's no guarantee for example that the European Union will be more stable and harmonious and more democratic there's no guarantee that somehow China will embrace freedom in fact it's probably the opposite so we have to proactively remind ourselves that these are not problems that will solve themselves or inevitably just get where they need to go each of us has to work towards the centralization and each of us has to understand what that means and be an active participant in the revolution are you wearing New Balance boots right now I don't know if New Balance makes boots but I'm sure as hell gonna buy some new Balance shoes October 14th they're going to announce what we're doing it's pretty cool it does use Cardinal and I'm really excited it's not an atala project it's in a Cardinal project they specifically requested Carlyle we said wow that's super cool so we had to do some things and play around for a bit and we managed to get some things working so I wait for that announcement middle part of the month I think you guys would be really excited if that counterfeiting is a humongous market so 1.1 three trillion dollar market place and watch chains and crypto currencies are actually perfect devices that not only solve that problem but also introduce really cool new business balls for example the concept of good secondary markets for luxury goods for example when you go to eBay and you see a Gucci purse you kind of built into the price is your suspicion of whether it's real or not if it's easy to authenticate it it's always better for the seller you can also have discussions about residual royalties where you can create marketplaces that have these wonderful things like Gucci purses and Louis Vuitton but when it's sold a second time on the secondary market then Gucci would still get a royalty or Louie Vuitton would still get a royalty in exchange for providing some additional services of selective education so it's really exciting concept for luxury brands they lose a lot of money to this and it damages their brand and consumer experiences so we're super excited to be working with New Balance in that effect to think about these things that's here the difference between Casper Norah Boris is the finality no it's not just finality we solved all the problems we have to Kapil clock we can bootstrap from Genesis we have 50% Byzantine resistance we operate a semi synchronous model I it's a very different protocol and the science is clear there isn't and we wish him well greetings from Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan well welcome soldier yeah a coalition guy or your PMC can you specify what will happen when the I would UK contract ends in 2020 we will keep going to the scope work is done and then after the scope work is done we'll ask community for a new contract and instead of working for a single entity we work for you guys and it's up to you to decide whether we stay or go pretty simple on airman RI Charles wen Hsiu gonna eat it in November I'll have a nice shoot cake just for you guys when we launched the incentivize test that love you to dmitar Charles when did you decide for yourself that building a revolutionary financial system should be your life goal you know it was a complete accident Tet I got into this field I never expected to you know I did a free course people loved the course I did a TED talk and you know these kinds of things gave me opportunities to actually go and pursue something but now I'm glad in hindsight that I've had the experience of being in this field and it's been profitable but it's been meaningful it's been meaningful in that I've been able to go to 52 countries I've been able to meet heads of state I've been able to actually see the world and I've been able to talk to everyone about their problems about their dreams or hopes and to get a kind of a global empathy and get a sense of where the world is going you know you've all hurry's a great historian and he's also a great author and he writes these wonderful books about where we came from men also where he thinks for going and the crux of the books said we are constrained by narratives religions or constructions of narratives governments or constructions of narratives you see these example exist there's no actual place for a corporation and it's on paper but where exactly does Microsoft live is there like a like a cabinet you can open and you find Microsoft you see ah this is Microsoft then you grab it you physically touch it no it's an abstraction it's a concept it's a way we can collectively coordinate we choose to believe that lie in exchange for the emergent benefits it provides and the reality is that as technology changes and the focus of society changes then we need different fictions for us to get to the next level for example we used to be really worried as a species about war famine and disease so everything was constructed to mitigate these things and protect us from them but these days not many people starve to death compared to all 7 billion these days not many people die from large words these days not many people have to deal with massive plagues like the Black Death for example which wiped out 1/3 of the European continent that said there's still tremendous problems in the world from malaria to Ebola they're sure in hell is still starvation and war but they tend to be more localized in fact if you read enlightenment now from Steven Pinker he makes this case that the world is becoming a better place and he exhaustively does it with a data-driven approach and show us over the last hundred years from 1900 to 2000 how this is really the best time ever to be alive but the problem is that now that we've globalized we have instantaneous access to information we live in a situation where the fictions that guided the world for a long time no longer irrelevant and it's creating social friction just why we see things like brexit and trumpets why we see the conflicts with China and the Hong Kong issue it's why the world seems a little bit more shaky and fragmented so or do for fictional changes and new narratives will come and really blockchain is a storytelling device it comes with it a philosophy about property about identity about how your money should work the level of autonomy you have the global nature of assets what's transparent what's not it comes with a concept of decentralized control so this is not just about money it's not just about token ultimately it's about storytelling it's telling a new story one that would give us a collection of tools that if we adopt them will allow us to take over to manage the processes the problems of globalization and also it gives a natural place for us to start putting artificial intelligence into the system to help us create mirrors to protect us from ourselves human beings are remarkably good at confirmation bias self-delusion and remarkably good at lying to ourselves no matter how good you are how smart you are to be working with technology that is like what Campbell used to say about computers they're like Old Testament God's lots of rules and no mercy to be working with systems that effectively don't care about you they have no empathy for you the rules are the rules and they're immutable and they can't be changed these are things humans aren't used to us kind of like a social law of physics so I never imagined I'd be in a space like this or to do something as relevant as this and magical is this but in hindsight it has been so tremendously rewarding and we're in just so tremendously challenging and I truly do enjoy it those are the best of days the worst of days of course come when you deal with the politics of personal destruction and there's just people wake up every day and all they want to do is hurt you or in some cases just because they want to hurt you for the sake of hurting you or they think because they disagree with you you're a monster but someone once sent me a picture of me on a Lamborghini tractor and the caption was suck it up buttercup so if you want to go change the world you gotta suck it up and take the hits hello Charles any news about the Haskell car no no no progress I will have a test that too as the rest one yes and that one will likely come in January Haskell's a little behind the rust in terms of getting things to market because they also have to bear the burdens of running the entire network as it is but there will likely be one more major update to the Haskell codebase prior to the end of the year and then the shelling era will begin for the Haskell side in early next year and there'll be a shelley test net released on the Haskell side and we'll probably do the same thing we did where we have a self no test at the network test net but probably more accelerated it is an open question of which codebase will be most relevant to the user in the coming months but we'll figure that out and that'll come from a variety of decisions that are made based upon facts and circumstances but they're working real hard a lot of great progress has been seen I told the network team to stop writing code and focus on dick documentation for a few weeks and they ended up writing a hundred page document which is certainly fun to read but good things are you know good things are moving there too it's just it's very hard to write that type of code but they've gotten much better at it and we get demos all the time and certainly we see a lot of progress the Russ code is moving very fast though how does a EDD progressed in Ethiopia anything done after train young girls yes we did train the girls and we signed a pilot agreement with ministry of innovation of technology and we're right now starting the pilot so a feasibility study is gonna be done and then a pilot that pilot will conclude probably June of 2020 based on that will work with the government if it makes sense to set up a PPP and go ahead and create an RFP and build a coalition to actually construct a full currency for millions of people in Addis Ababa and if that happens on the I which case side which we'd like it to but the economics have to align we will deploy that currency on Cardinal and which will bring millions of users in the Cardinal ecosystem every one of these deals does that for real you see rusty bike you made millions we got delays and a fake test that that's my point you know the stupidity never ceases to amaze me rusty what would you prefer what would you like us to launch you tell me it's a chat go ahead come on give us something good tell me how you'd run the project Hoskinson do you think our data with its bright steam and formal methods approach can compete long term with a project like eos with near their infinite warchest worth billions they don't have an infinite war chest they have some billions of dollars great Microsoft has billions of dollars how'd that work out for them when they competed against Google how'd that work out for them when they competed against Apple you know how they do it in a smartphone market how they do in the social network market how they doing in search not so well money doesn't magically make you win if it did all the monopolies of the old ages would still be in charge you don't need money to win you need people you need philosophy you need a good business strategy you need a great way of executing you need the right incentives for people to participate I'll remind everybody that the largest cryptocurrency is the one that was still started by one guy on a laptop that was Bitcoin and no money was raised for that yet still it is the biggest actor and has the biggest present second theorems ICO was smaller than the fine Leo's paid Securities Exchange Commission and aetherium is still kicking a OSes ass so money doesn't buy you success all it is is it just gives you more problems and a Treasury system overcomes all of this because you can literally do anything with the Treasury you could go ahead and make a decision you know I'm going to ask the community go raise 50 million dollars for this the community thinks about and says you know let's let's take that risk let's go down that road you now have a mechanism to use the power of the printing press to build anything you want why does the US dollar matter well we now can create our own money and as long as we get social consensus we can get it done there's a great corporate example of this look at Tesla they just print stock is that we need somebody to go create some stock here you go and they go sell it raise billions of dollars normal businesses don't do that they go out of business they're like oh god model is not sustainable it must say you know I had a crazy idea about where I'd like take the world in the future I'm just gonna go print some stock if the market wants it well raise the money we're good to go and they did and we can do the exact same with crypto currencies with a Treasury model so if we need 100 million it'll show up we need a billion it'll show up but what you can't replicate what you can't print is integrity and if you start from the beginning with no integrity and broken processes and it's all about the money and it's not really about actually achieving something you can't fix that that's why Bitcoin still King cuz that's all it had was the integrity how is our boards progressing very good Genesis you can use it right now today downloaded network testing that shut up put up it's running right now you know we invented it to four years to create it now it's there we're playing around with it kids are playing around with it and very soon rewards will start flowing and very soon it will be the status quo Network will be running and what the hell are y'all gonna saying q1 a 2020 it'll be something else when Gogan how can I learn Haskell I've never floated before well you just go ahead and read this lovely book that one of our secretaries got Graham Hutton's programming in Haskell it's quite a good book and this will teach you everything you need to know if it's too hard then read learning you a Haskell for great good or the Haskell book see ya three different sources good luck how will Shelly changed the world I'll tell you very succinctly we will have proven that you can run a global scale financial system that can support potentially millions of users and be 250 times more decentralized than Bitcoin with mechanisms to make it more decentralized over time on about 10 kilowatts of power the power of a large hall feels pretty good to me Carl endo Haskell was my first programming language first year in college where did you go to university there's not many that do that Edinburgh does but the American schools definitely don't in retrospect is there anything that you wish you had done differently oh my god yeah he made boatload mistakes on a lot of things you know we didn't take building a cryptocurrency especially in the Pioneer as serious as as we should have you know we said it's easy to construct the cryptocurrency these new protocols that we're developing are a lot harder so we over emphasized building the science division and we over emphasized the formal methods approach and we built out some great capabilities there which have paid enormous dividends we have more scientists and more paper volume than pretty much anyone in this space yeah there's no one you can point to that canal matches in that respect but we didn't really have a strong of a product focus and we didn't really have a strong of a development focus in the beginning as we needed to and then we tried half measures to fix it like putting strong project management on top and it just didn't work the way that we intended you know if we had to do everything all over again when we launched the Byron era we would have probably launched a command-line client full node and built it probably in a different way than we built Byron almost certainly in a different way and we would have launched Icarus as the first major product and it would have very tight control over the user experience it would have been easy to dragon multi-sig easy to dragon Hardware wallet support we'd be doing rapid updates every six weeks that team was very cheap to maintain and we just got a lot of value for it and we'd have had a great user experience with all of the people in the car on the ecosystem there wouldn't have been connecting to network or all these other things and the exchanges would have just run this command line though and we would have held off on Daedalus for a lot longer if we had to do it all over again there also is it open question of the wisdom of doing the first generation of a product and Haskell we had to do it all over again I probably would have done it Scala or F sharp F sharp is a really interesting ecosystem because you have xamarin and dotnet and all these beautiful things there and there's just really powerful applications that can be constructed Scala we've had a phenomenal development experience with and we've really enjoyed building Scala applications it's easy to predict when they're gonna be done they just work on Rails testing is quite straightforward and you can still use a lot of things in the formal methods community and you can still use a lot of things in the functional programming space like for example for product let's quit check there's Scala check you know there's there's a lot of things in that ecosystem that are quite nice and there's plenty of Scala developers out there so I have to do it all over again we definitely do things differently and we would have focused on a browser client to start with and really had that light experience and really made the user experience great and we wouldn't have tried to innovate too much in the beginning and then we would have iterated much in a much more agile way you know yeah the problem when you build things based on research is it always has a waterfall desk view it's very difficult to get agility at research because you create the paper and then you have to kind of think about it and write a prototype and then you discover a lot of things and you go back up the waterfall to revise the paper putting agile into paper development it's very difficult because scientists just don't work that way and they're used to much longer self-reflective time tables you know they submit to the conference as a referee process you go to the conference computer science is faster than mathematics or physics because their conference oriented not journal oriented so instead of maybe being one or two years for feedback you get it in six months but six months for feedback is is not acceptable for an entrepreneurial product culture so to accelerate that a bit you have to put special processes and it's something that we've had to learn along the way and it's still not perfect on the formal methods side you know we probably have a lighter touch vision I you know we do write it latex the right reference Haskell code we have done some things in Isabel maybe more exploration of things like PLA plus you know maybe not it's hard to say if the approach didn't yield merit or not because we have these great documents now like the wallet back-end the wallet specification and the ledger spec and and so forth and these documents are easy to read and they're quite powerful and that give us a lingua franca how to have a conversation with external firms what we want to do and where we want to go so you know maybe we'd have a slightly more coupled or tighter approach or have perhaps a prototyping phase before you go directly into formal methods was a slightly separate team you know there's it's an interesting question and we're still tinkering and tooling in we have some great people in the organization who are definitely thinking about these things every day and working about these things we've proven we can be agile like we did with Icarus we build it for months and everything was built in a proof-of-concept way and every month we had a demo and within two months it was taken and productized by a mer go and turned into their own ecosystem with your eye as a testimony to the quality of that software and the vision there if a third party can just simply take what you've done and instantly turn that into a product that they understand had a lot of five can build a roadmap on it's easy to do things for yourself it's hard to do things for other people so this is one of those things after it's all said and done at the end of 2020 we're definitely going to have a nice retrospective over the left the five years of total lessons learned and we will run a quite a comprehensive document on what we learned and what we did that said you know we are where we're at today and you have to move forward and we're rapidly releasing products if you look at our releases for cutting releases on the wallet back-end for cutting releases on rusts in some cases multiple times a week the Haskell code is certainly accelerating at a much faster pace that any Haskell developers usually do and we're starting to see a real product ization there and we're starting to get a better product focus I have some regrets about the relationship with the Cardinal foundation it was just so unfortunate that Parsons did the things he did and he lacked any desire to actually execute and have a vision and and work with us it was so hard to get them to do even basic things and we spent months and months and months trying to be nice about it taking the reins where we had to but ultimately that did hurt the ecosystem had we been faster on certain things especially with the release of Gogan and Shelly it would it would have been nice to go out into the field and build applications I I see the often criticism well nothing's been deployed on cardano's like guys I've met thousands of people the last few years who want to build on our system it's not going to be a problem finding the app developers and getting people to build things on Cardinal it's just a bit annoying that we haven't gotten to a state where that can be done in a reasonable way yet and I really want to because that's the fun part of the ecosystem because you're no longer talking about well when will this particular protocol ship you're talking about well how do we solve this problem ooh that's cool you're just doing all this cool prototyping and you get to see things being built look I really loved going to F Denver it was multiple floors of just boost after booths after booth and you get to talk one person after another person about well wouldn't you build it what are you solving two points I took away that this is a really creative space and second no one really cares about the infrastructure they're deploying to they're not loyal to aetherium Oreos or anything else they're here to solve problems and if the infrastructure enables them to solve that and works with them to solve that they'll stick on it but if the infrastructure works against them they will move on to something else so it's a great question certainly certainly had a lot of fun the last few years but man it's been hard it's been very very hard I wish I was able to spend more time with family I missed a lot of things I miss by grandfather and grandmother's death in the funeral I I miss anniversaries and birthdays and all kinds of things that I wish I hadn't missed and some people are no longer here to say goodbye to and I just wasn't around for the last moments so I guess you give up some of the good with the bad elements question who's died which case contract with building car down at will can we see copy of that contract absolutely not contract was negotiated with the entity that collected the funds to to build Cardinal and we it's a standard software development contract it's got a nice scope of work as time to completion but if there are overruns they're my responsibility not the responsibility of that entity so we are just gonna go do that and we're just gonna keep working till Phil terror is out even if it makes me broke there's a quantum computer a real problem slash trouble for Cardinal trees are doing great quantum computers not a problem don't read the headlines follow the science can you talk about how hard on approves identity in the network how are external acts and his stations handled this is a great example of cross-pollination so first you need a notion of well how are you going to treat identity in your system and the best way of doing that is saying identity is an object and in this case the did standard is probably where the entire industry is moving so okay good so we have a decentralized identifier is you know just basically a small like 54 bit or 56 bit address and then it points to something called added document which is self identity and it contains lots of additional information okay so that's the standard but what that doesn't give you is trusted attestation it doesn't give you a web trust it doesn't give you a liasing so you have to do a lot more batteries are not included with it it is a standard just kind of handle things but you need something on top of did to make it useful so we are building an identity product as a consequence of what we're doing for credential verification in Georgia and it turns out that that the color based identity product we're constructing is blockchain agnostic so you can pull the blockchain out and you can put a different blockchain hat so it's probably going to be the case that we take those mechanics that we're constructing which going out Sleater and we put those mechanics on top of Daedalus or the Cardinal platform and maybe there will be a light touch to begin so we're putting a message center into devilís as of 1.7 and the initial use case will be for us to push messages to people who have Daedalus but then once we have digs in and we have puffs up into the protocol you can subscribe to people so for example when you delegate to a state pool a state pool can have a unique identifier and a subscription channel and then when you stake it'll automatically subscribe to the state pool so the state pool can then push messages to your message sectors such as we're increasing fees are retiring or if it's a socially beneficial pool here's our use of funds report or whatever they want to set and of course you can unsubscribe right yes it's a interface that you have well if you have that system then the next thing you can do with those very same mechanics is a Francis so you can say okay well this HD wallet and this did belong to Bob so I'm gonna add Bob as a friend and when he gets a pending friend request what he can do is sign whatever identifier and send it back and then you can create addresses on his behalf to send him money and also it provides aliasing at that point so instead of seeing an address you see Bob so it's your version Bob so you can have namespace collisions but you've authenticated that Bob out of bath that's called web of trust so that's one way of doing it and it's the easiest way of doing things because it's totally decentralized but then there is the need for centralized curation in specifically for example how do you know I which ksi ohk or how do you know Google is Google so usually we introduced the idea of trusted third parties and the escape doing that is kind of importing something from the old certificate authority world into the system and will probably have support for x.509 in some capacity and then we could probably have a CA style system we can pull in that it's not terrible if it's coupled with the centralized identifiers and web of trust I think you can get around the downsides of of that type of attestation but it's going to be an interesting thing to discuss come 2020 and beyond and to solve this problem it's gonna take many many years of trial and error and there are some good projects that are looking into it I'd highly encourage you guys to look into hyper ledger indie and I highly encourage you guys to look into sovereign these are two examples of people who are really trying to take the identity problem seriously and have done some great open-source work that you can use as a stepping stone by the way that's uh that's how you do multi-sig really well if you have dibs in your system and pops up at your system then it's easy to coordinate these things and do it without a trusted relay server and that's really powerful it also helps you with contingent settlement because you can embed a get within an address and then when you try to send a transaction to it the first thing is kind of out of an negotiation and then both parties have to agree for that to settle so instead of just pull Trent push transactions you can have mutual transactions and that's particularly useful for things like exchanges for example if you're a finance customer bit Rick's customer you can have a white listing system where before you become a customer you have to register it did with the exchange and then the did will require you to sign or a dead that did somehow in your address that you was drawing from your dead credentials don't actually live and financier bit tricks so your private keys aren't there so if your account is compromised an attacker can't loot your address they can't take the money out because they won't be able to replicate the credentials for withdraw address it also solves the f8 EF traveler role and it potentially can give a path to liquidity for Z cash and other anonymity coins that are starting to lose a Nativity and starting to lose liquidity because of compliance issues you can encrypt the din bit it and then only the exchange can see that so that address is authenticated and it probably fit well in their compliance standard so a lot of really cool things you can do is sticking on test net available on your ROI I think there's going to going to be a you Royce taking we've certainly talked to Nikko and Sebastian about it we're going to do multiple updates to the incentivize test then maybe every four to six weeks will do a major update so a hard fork and reset it will announce that as we get closer to the test on how we want to do it if they don't hit us on the first wave I think they'll certainly hit us for the second wave because they're gonna want to test their GUI for snaking because they're gonna build a steak nice enter into your oi for watching main net and they kind of need to test it on the test net before they before they test it on maybe and there's a lot of ADA that lives in your ROI and to have to move it back to Dedalus some users may not want to do that I still don't understand the focus on Africa 95 percent of the Africans are poor yeah and 95 percent of Americans were poor back in the 19th century the vast majority of Chinese were poor throughout most of the 20th century in fact there was a time when Venezuela was significantly wealthier than China think about that things change and you make the real money when you're there first before the things change but you know they're going to change and then you scoop them up as they change second who would you rather bet on is going to be your customer people who live in a society where they're happy with their money and there's pretty strong financial infrastructure or a society where 70% of the population is at or under the age of 30 they're not happy with their currencies and they're looking for something new they're globalized and their cellphone centric I would much much much rather bet on bet on that demographic especially if that demographic is experiencing 10% GDP growth every year did you geo block US citizens on the ICO the ICO was done in Japan Korea and China and it was person-to-person and passports were collected and all the marketing was done in Japanese in Korean this is not iou's this wasn't a Mickey Mouse thing it was a very serious deal people sure as hell criticized it but in hindsight seemed like a pretty [ __ ] good idea nine thousand nine hundred fourteen people participated all their names are known so if you go to Cornell hub to auric you can see the audit report that was produced on it but it's a closed matter and all those participants doing very very well quite happy you know for years people have been criticizing things but it's just a lot of recklessness especially in 2017 we saw and it's extraordinary to me that that people are totally tolerant of that but then when you do something that has checks and balances and controls an oversight and was done in a slow methodical deliberate way and that's somehow bad you know just let it go move on focus on today how the e.t.c summit go was great a lot of fun drank maple syrup from the bottle had a Canadian flag wrapped around me Bob swimmer wall was incredibly hospitable Vancouver's always a lovely City I am truly did enjoy it had a lot of fun you know it's a it's a good ecosystem and we hope that we can find something there to do Sheryl's how much a supply of it is owned by the Japanese a diminishing amount every day I mean initially a large distribution but i ohk never sold its ada so all the ada training had to come from japan so the stuff that went into pit ryx and finance is training there there are certain people claim that new ADA was issued it was never the case this again lies that people tell their their his liquidity they sell is still at a huge profit and it's entering the global markets every single day so you know that's diminishing I can't give you the exact amount because the network's been running for two years and who the hell knows we never kept track of that you can't keep track of it's impossible how does it community going to vote to renew the HK contract if the cardinal governance system is not yet active it they can't therefore I just keep losing money writing code until that's done you know we call that a financial incentive for Charles Hoskins sent to do his job you know this the other the other fun thing I just don't understand and the with the fun NATO going through our space is people think that we're just sitting on our laurels and relax guys we lose money in the current state of affairs and I hate losing money I have a for-profit business I have 200 employees to take care of it's not sustainable so either we do the job or we go out of business so I'd much rather do the job right it's better for me it's better for my employees for our company so so we feel the pressure more than anybody else does and we're just gonna keep working till it gets done there are certain ventures like Yoos for example that feel no existential pressure because they just simply have billions of dollars at their disposal and so the opposite incentive you know the fine they took from the SEC was two months interest at four percent on the money that they raised it's nothing to them they bought a website address I think for 50 million dollars I mean it's like it's crazy when you have that kind of capital to deploy so where they get the job done today or 10 years from now what difference does it make you're flying around at a private jet you're you're staying at 5-star hotels you're living like a god and no matter how bad you [ __ ] up there's enough money sitting there that you can just keep playing her out so there's no incentive to produce there's no incentive to deliver you do not give up a startup that kind of money in the beginning they get that after they've given the world the iPhone they get that after they given the world the Google search engine or Windows and then okay spoils of work congratulations you give it to them upfront it's over you've checked out it's the it's the I'm vested I don't care anymore philosophy so we have very strong incentives to get things done and it bothers me and eats away at my soul when things don't get done and I'm usually the first person to yell at somebody complaining it get unpleasant hostile and to try and new approaches a new way finishing things it's just these are very difficult protocols and if you want to actually do something real and innovate you have to take the time to do it you have to take the the the risks and the execution steps to do it and there is no manual that says this is the way to build it or else it would have been built before why is there no documentation no code on github no product presentation on atala well burgle on Atala is an Iowa Kay product on a card aa product and we built it using my money in the funds of AI ohk not card on all funds so I have no obligation to the card on Oh community to tell you anything about at all until I do it's a product that we construct now if we choose to use Atalla and tandem with a cardinal deployment to benefit the cardinal ecosystem that's a business and strategic decision we make but we will never get into the game that because we work on card on o we now have a moral obligation to reveal all the other projects operations and products of card of Pi which K and a tell us one of them it's an open source project and at some point we will open up the github repos and have we have extensive documentation it's on confluence but we have no reason to do so because we're working intimately with a collection of launch partners and at some point we'll probably spin at Ala out into an independent company that's a subsidiary of io HK that does enterprise watching contracting for the cryptocurrency space and for governments and large corporations and so forth but it's a different product entirely and you know there's just no reason to have that discussion at the moment and there's things you have to do to kind of open these things up and it's counterproductive to where the product is at its life cycle we started at all about 18 months ago and it's just getting the point where we can run pilots and those pilots will allow us then to understand what's the best way of opening that product up we also have to have a decision of whether we decide to run that product and a consortium like hyper ledger or we go it alone and there's still some strategic conversations going around so right now we're in the pilot and capabilities phase and we're learning as we go and at some point we will open these things it's going to be probably under an apache license or an MIT license as most of our software is and anyone is free to use it and it's an enterprise blotchy and it's cross pollinated with things we've learned from medicine things we learned from Cardinal it's written in Scala the team is quite it's led by Danelle patel his patient computer science he's the product manager Noll is the project manager and crystal fistly Technical Architect and there's several great developers and business analysts and other people who work with that team and they're doing wonderful things but you know we're a private company we're not under any obligation to reveal that stuff at the moment but we will you know when the time is right my primary focus is shipping Shelley at the moment getting car Donna on door Danelle is mostly capable of doing his job without oversight he's a good guy cannot elaborate on new balance October 14th are you would you know it's amazing people think I am I'm hot any comment to the dan Larimer pose back in 2013-2014 saying I'm not trustworthy dad doesn't like me I don't like dad okay we're competitors we've been competitors since 2014 he also said aetherium is a toy that will amount to nothing and it's interesting science experiment where's bitshares whereas aetherium or z/os for his aetherium there are things dan does I profoundly disagree with and I'm sure they're things I do he profoundly disagrees with we work with together for a few months and that's that and I have a track record worked with many people in this space throughout the years people just keep lying for example they say I've been fired from Liske just left they were paying me to do nothing I literally didn't do any calls and I was on the advisory role so I said why am i consuming resources I'm just gonna go leave and you guys do your thing no harm no foul I could have just shut up and collected another 140,000 list okay and then that's transformed - Charles is fired from less then they say I left sent cash I'm still there I'm still an adviser after all this time we still do work with horizon ok they say I left DTC I was fired push that for me to see there's no organization to even fire me from UTC these idiots but yet they say it it's crazy and you just every YouTube comment all these things is over and over again they want to create a narrative meanwhile I've been consistently at the same job since 2015 here at i/o HK building things from two people to over 200 people still here still going strong still working on the same [ __ ] project I think longer the dad's been working on any of his projects at this point outside of XRP and aetherium and a few things there's not many founders that have been with their cryptocurrency this long even charlie leaves kind of checked out with with litecoin most people tend to leave their projects after 2 or 3 years I'm still at Cardno and will be probably until well beyond 2020 especially if a contract gets renewed I could be working on this in 2030 for God's sakes if the narrative is I leave immediately it's it's craziness it's just it's fun for the sake of fun people who like lie and say terrible things you don't get a company with 200 people you don't deliver consistently you you don't do the things we've done with Cardno and the academic research we've done if you're a flake and you leave every six months you don't do it it's just not the case but people like lying that's what they do working since 2015 what did you deliver since 2015 Charles you're a troll bit of this you know damn well what we've delivered 40-plus scientific papers probably a million lines of code we've written there is a product in market it's in the top 20 in coin market cap you ask any of the other 2,000 crypto currencies beneath us if they'd like to switch places with us they sure as hell would we got a fan base across the whole world it's almost Fight Club in fact let me tell you this story I love this story I was leaving Vancouver and I was at a flying Air Canada back and the guy at the who was checking me in I just getting a weird vibe from it I was like what it was caught up with this guy he's checking me and keep smiling and then he takes my bag does the whole this thing and he hands me my ticket he leaves real close to me says I love EDA you know it's we've become Fight Club you know we're everywhere I go I rented the people the waiter at the hotel was a Cardinal fan I've I met a border patrol guy in England who's a card on us and I was in Australia walking down the street and where was it Brisbane or someplace like that I can't recall Canberra and that was it and somebody just took a double-take turned around said aren't you that card ah no guy man I love card ah no so we built a global community we wrote 40-plus scientific papers we've written massive amounts of code we are right up there with everybody else we have reasonable liquidity we're listed on more than 30 exchanges people take it seriously new people write about us there's been people to raise a lot more money and there's been people to try a lot harder and they have an accomplished 1/10 of what we've accomplished in terms of product launch by q1 and 2020 basically right in that decentralized SRAM very shortly after we have smart contracts what have you accomplished what have you done with your life what have you contributed well and frankly who has a strategy beyond 2020 you know we have a pretty clear vision and we have a pretty clear way of accomplishing that vision it may take longer okay great things are slow talk to stephen wolfram about Mathematica as a product and his vision for Wolfram Alpha he was thinking about Wolfram Alpha Mathematica back in the 1980s and he was planning things that they're only now doing today back in the 1980s it took him that long to get there it's not about how long it takes to get there it's about getting there and being relevant and demonstrating that this actually does something for people and the things we are building today will be around for a very long time the processes we've said will be around for a very long time and sure it takes a long while and lot to think about and if you screw up god massive consequences people lose money some cases billions of dollars of money people get disenfranchised people get hurt so you have moral obligation with the time and resources you have to do the best job you can do and feel right about it when you go to bed not say oh well it sucks to be them better luck next time no you have to take your job seriously you have to be passionate about it and damn it it's kind of me beautiful you have no beautiful things that inspire people and they like and they love so that's what we've accomplished since 2015 we created a global movement kind of like Fight Club we're having fun we guess we have to talk about it because it's cryptocurrency that's okay you know people don't want to talk about it and we just keep chugging away and the science keeps getting better the coke keeps getting better and we're having fun sounds like you're not though what as if not enough people will run state polls if not enough people would be interested we already have almost a hundred state polls running on the non incentivize does that and that's actually why we're doing the incentivize test at first before releasing it to Maine that because it teaches you a huge amount about how many people are going to participate what the rates need to be in blah blah blah and all those little things if not enough people participate it's like saying what happens when there's not enough miners for Bitcoin the system doesn't work so if the token price is high if people take us seriously they're philosophically aligned with us they'll support the system there are cryptocurrencies worth 20 million dollars that people are mining I don't think we're gonna have a participation problem I think it's gonna be the opposite it's gonna be hard to figure out who to work with yes wolfram is definitely obsessed with cellular autonomy he wrote a new kind of science for heaven's sakes Steve Jobs delivered look at the history of next computer yes he delivered with Hefele but look at the history of next computer in the the hinterlands it took a long time for Steve to find his way the world was a better place when he did well then which gay ever issued equity in ihk on Cardano that would be super cool wouldn't it I'd like to do that one day we'll figure it out I'm a liar here our turnover rate at HK mike is actually quite low it's one of the lowest in the entire industry you'd expect a fairly high turnover rate given the nature of the industry and also just given how unstable things are but people tend to stay multi-party computation on Dedalus yeah you need puffs up and you need a lot of other things to make that work because you have to find people and connect to them but you know we'll build a relay I don't really protocol specifically for MPC and pull it into our stack but it is an interesting network question Reena is ideally suited for that actually yes trance you will need to reinstall a new version of the Daedalus client and you'll have to go through an import stage so it's not going to be super complicated and the blog post that we release will explain this process with some degree detail and before we do it will broadcast a lot of things we'll do a card on Oh effect episode there'll be a lot of advance notice and things exactly what to do and what the experience is going to look like but it's it's pretty simple you'll just simply download a copy of Daedalus that's been pre built specifically for the test net will probably reskin it so it looks cosmetically different as well and not just saying test net Daedalus but it'll say so the colors will be different so forth and then there'll be an import stage and then immediately after that you could just have at it and have fun and it's a reset because it's a cop it's an air drop into the incentivized test net so the blockchain will be very small they'll just be a Genesis block and things will boot almost instantly so it'll have a very good user experience it'll be very fast and snappy and things will be learned along the way and then we can of course send messages to that Daedalus client so it'll let people know ahead of time when we're planning and updating the incentivized test net and also when we plan on taking the incentivized test and offline and doing the basically distribution back into Cardinal so there's kind of like two parallel threads going during that time phase and there's stuff happening with the main net and then as we get closer for the convergence a lot of stuff will be announced on the name the Excite and a lot of stuff will be announced on utilize test that side so all that is being coordinated managed we have people like Tatiana and her gay jobs to be a release manager and we have comms people who think about these things and we're right now figuring out exactly the best way of broadcasting that to as many people as possible this is also a great participation test to see how many people have just put their ate into cold storage and they'll care about it or really don't they have it but they don't really want to do anything with it for now they're just sitting and waiting versus people are active participants so the incentivized Testament will tell us a lot about the lightness of overall a towns Network and what people can't do and then what we can do based on that information is start targeting our marketing towards certain demographics and communities that maybe need to wake up a little bit and start participating at that so it's really nice to have a buffer of time in a nice safe sandbox that gives you that notion it also gives us time to talk to exchanges because exchanges are starting a staking as a service business we've we've talked to multiple exchanges that are doing that and so we're really curious about their business requirements and how they want to run that what they want to do so there's a lot to do but from a user experience perspective my hope is just install something import something probably your keywords so make sure you have them and if you don't create a new wallet transfer your funds to that wallet that you have it with before the snapshot I and a likely just being an import from a keyword because there's actually a different address structure and everything inside the surprise test net now we're using the back 32 standard which will be the standard we use for Shelley 31 years old and Thank You Lithuania beautiful country first rule of card honey you do talk about card ah ha ha that's great that's a good question what if Aida is on an exchange so when we do the snapshot it doesn't know if it's exchange data or Dedalus data so there is an interesting question about will exchanges allow you to withdraw your test metadata into data list so you can use a mistake and this is a good opportunity for them to build that infrastructure out or at the very least have a position on it it's a good opportunity for them also to beta-test they're staking as a service offerings that they have but we cannot guarantee an exchange will give you the ability to withdraw your test India so the safest thing to do is pull your ADA out of the exchanges you should never leave it there but anyway pull it out before the snapshot occurs because if that particular exchange does not support this your test no native will be locked there and non-participatory or perhaps they'll even stake it and keep the funds themselves depends on the end-user license agreement where the exchange is located if that's legal or not so the safest thing to do is pull the ADA before right before the snapshot off the exchange even if you want to put it back on and then put it back on and we'll of course discuss out of bandwidth exchanges about what they are going to do did I sleep in my clothes you know I just got back guys when will card I'll be fully functional I keep having problems with Davis see comments like this are always so difficult because we've done massive upgrades to Daedalus and we have a help desk people submit logs 96% I think are satisfied they use it we get statistics based on feedback and for the most part it's a very stable product now that's cross-platform and it seems to be a stable wallet it doesn't seem to have any of these problems anymore like connecting the network or so forth and then every now and then we get somebody who's saying they're having an issue and then they go I can't solve your issue over reddit I can't solve your issue over live chat the only way I can solve your issue is report something to the helpdesk I spend money out of my own pocket every day to have people there whose day job is to answer your questions and help you get your dental is wearing if it's not working that wasn't actually even in our support contract we didn't have that in the economy we took that duty because the foundation was supposed to do it they didn't do it under Parsons and we said no it's good for QA let's let's have you guys have something there you're still having weird issues though that's another reason why there's client diversity because maybe you have a weird computer which case Chrome with Euro is a really good option and I think about 20% of the network is running there and for the most part these problems are gone now but Daedalus is a great product the code is incredibly high-quality it's been refactored and restructured many times and for the most part I'm very happy with Daedalus as of today I understand historically its head issues but it doesn't take time for software to get where it needs to go ergo look at the Bitcoin cutie client in 2009 2010 2011 that was that was held the snapshot date Michael will be announced in the blog post it'll be sometime in November the work down for the Haskell client seems irrelevant in a future day just like Yellin K that is responsible for the wastage of time effort money payment was to build car Donna so the protocols and actually bring it to market didn't specify Haskell or these things and so if Haskell ends have not being used or it's less relevant then that means things that would have otherwise been profit have now been expended and I take a loss on the contract so I paid you know if you have your product you have your product but there was certainly a lot learned and I still do believe in Haskell I think it's a great approach what can we as cardano's supporters do for you Charles all I want you to do is just use the software you know if you want have criticisms have criticisms just make your criticisms fair and for heaven's sake have some empathy this tough stuff and we're all here together we're all trying to accomplish the same things together I don't make money from delays I don't make money if the software doesn't work and I don't relish just sitting around waiting for things I want to do stuff I want to build stuff I want the stuff I build to be useful to you and interesting and actually be meaningful and have an impact so use it everyday use it and if you have problems let us know go to the help desks and if logs these types of things go to the distinct people task force channel 2400 people in it it's growing every day do these things if you do these things it helps the project a lot and then when we launch go can write smart contracts build things write dabs see where that takes you then when we launch Voltaire be an active participant in the governance of the system that's what you can do to help the don't have to defend me on reddit or Twitter or you know who cares if people are making nasty videos or saying terrible things on Twitter I used to have a very thin skin that I wouldn't use to this stuff but it's gotten very thick throughout the years and I just couldn't care less anymore so you trolls you really not having an impact on me anymore my life is great your life is probably not and there's nothing you can say or do at this point to make my life not great so either you help us or just leave you know why are you wasting your time it's an open community it's permissionless come and do stuff yeah we need to improve the documentation I I fully agree that there need to be some improvements there you have to understand that there's significantly better documentation on the Haskell side but it's not at that state so the rough side was running with different processes where it was very cold centric and just get it out you know the documentation is kind of free-flowing because design decisions are being changed all the time so the documentation will definitely improve in fact probably after the incentivize test net is launched they'll be a sprint specifically focused to improving cleaning up the documentation on that side we're bringing a few more people to do nothing but start worrying about those things but it's definitely a deficit there and you know you can't have everything so you know take the good with the bad and it's a high priority and a little bit his libera a danger to crypto well I said to Mark Zuckerberg I said run honey man run and he seems to be running that bear is chasing him he's not as fast as he needs to be they keep losing people I think PayPal just pulled up it's a lot harder to build a cryptocurrency in the ecosystem that you think really is thousands and thousands of ventures have tried I remember hash graph running around where the future or the future we're so awesome we're so off they watch it they go for 36 s like three cents and also they just it's a tsunami wave of bad press they're good guys they're not bad people it's just it's a lot harder to launch a cryptocurrency even if you plan and you have a good meticulous people behind you look it's still be of a colleague with Algar at great people great human being great engineers a good idea is legitimate project and it's still that really needs to be granted a lot more to do it's hard to launch a crypto yeah and if you're Facebook it's 10 times harder because you have this gargantuan spotlight on you and everybody's going to try kill you US government doesn't come after me we're pretty chill but if you're Facebook they have to because you're competing with a dollar [Music] you think the Fed will digitize the dollar officially yes within the next five or ten years it'll happen POS on phone apps you can do POS with phone if you want to leave it on for when your slot comes up it's pretty cool these are very powerful computers actually if you look at the collaboration between Microsoft and Belkin to build the sq1 processor for the recent announcement for the the Microsoft Surface pro 10 that's a really really really really really good example of the where the world is going a cell phone processor is now so powerful it can power laptop and compete with top align Intel processors and still and consume 7 watts of power and have an all-day battery life so your cell phone is a supercomputer and it is in can be infrastructure for cryptocurrency a proof of stake is all about having that infrastructure so yes hopefully you can stay from a phone one day do you see me for secret smart contracts like enigma is trying to build not like a nygma but like Kachina we just published the paper for that shipping shipping soon and no I'm not making fun of hash craft from going for thirty two to three my point was it's hard to do this and they're suddenly experiencing the same problems we have and you know despite all the years of preparation and brilliance and the great team you still get hammered it's a difficult face it's super competitive and there's things you just cannot imagine you have to think about what do I think about the new foldable devices in market yeah that's a good question the the new Microsoft neo and then the sun phone where if you took the Loretto the the screen cover off it destroyed the phone like what are you doing this this is not a real product stop it people you hurt me it it was almost like Grendel and Beowulf like it hurts me no yeah God some of these products are pretty crazy I would in in principle the idea of having two screens is interesting it's like it's a tablet when you want and it's a phone when you're not but the problem is it's really sick when it's folded so it's too thick to be a phone when it's in phone mode and when you fold it out to make it a tablet it's a mini tablet and you can't really do too much with it the neo is interesting the the one was the keyboard that Microsoft is doing maybe maybe they don't have more utility I don't know it just it just seems like it's not a product yet but who knows when the iPad first came out I I said I don't know if that's gonna be a real thing or not and tablets became a huge category so I've been wrong before but I don't think foldable phones are a big deal yet yeah I've seen the chico videos about me I don't watch him anymore in fact the most recent one I didn't even look at couldn't care less you know in life there gonna be people that say horrible things about you I mean figured they were hated politician let's say Obama for example you know not an Obama fan or not against Obama just as an example people made movies about how he's not born in the United States or how he's part of a communist conspiracy destroy the country again look what CNN is saying about Trump and so no matter where your politics fall no matter what you're trying to accomplish there's plenty of people out there just gonna say horrible things about you for example when Steve Jobs retook Apple in 1997 the tech media was not impressed a lot of people said he said has been he's too hard to work with he'll kill the company in a year this is the worst decision that Apple could have made and the very same people who wrote those articles wrote his in as a [ __ ] ooh arey that he was the Edison of his time and the greatest business mind of the 21st and 20th century haters gonna hate you know and this guy is just one of them and once we deliver and all the things that are on our roadmap then he'll find something else to make videos about maybe it's us maybe it's someone else I won't get an apology I won't get it your honor I was wrong video No it'll just die oh no I was right you just got lucky you know this is just that's how this business model it's it's shock jock you know make stuff get people to the fanboy on it anybody who doesn't like me or doesn't like the project they point to it say that's proof just because you believe it doesn't make it true you know and so you can't let these things bother you and you can't really pay too much attention so instead what you do is you follow the pol Hamels way of doing you tell people what you're gonna do you do it and you tell them what you did that's it so we said this is Cardinal scalability interoperability sustainability and it's gonna be based on science here's a stack of papers I think Rickon Filipe printed amounts like this think now of scientific papers and we went wrote a lot code and now we're launching the code and you're gonna use the code and then you're and then we'll talk about the code that we shipped and whether it was good or bad whether it did the job or not and then we'll figure it out from there but that's what we signed up for I spent five years doing this and it's it's been a long road and a lot of work we've accomplished a huge amount and we got to a point where it went from could we even do it - it's an inevitability and a certainty like take a little longer let that mean we're not gonna show up for work every day so there's plain people in life that that's not good enough for them there's got to be a scandal there's got to be a controversy it's like the Trump impeachment even if he's in the peach he won't be removed from office because there's too many Republican senators they have no political reality where they're gonna vote against him so we're gonna go through what six months in a year of nonsense and no II's tell-alls of deep text messages so that the outcome can be nothing is accomplished the Miller report is another example of that 18 months of of this noise Saturday Night Live having robert de niro run out and say oh you know trump's going to jail and you know very soon and then the report comes out and if you're left it's the most damning thing ever if you're right it's vindication and life goes on we move forward meanwhile and all the resources and time and noise we didn't do much to address our national debt we didn't do much to address the health care problem we didn't do much to address these endless wars that never seem to stop we didn't do much to actually make America greater we just let the problems that we refused to talk about get worse and worse worse and I put those types of things in the same category if he has a better idea about how we should achieve decentralization or how we should build better protocols or get more people and more productive ways into our ecosystem to actually carry out the vision of these systems great but if all that it is is attacking people for the sake of attacking for ratings to make money then it's no better than any other demagogue and no better than any other Agent Provocateur there's certainly been many of them throughout history history doesn't remember those people but they do remember the people that change the world and I'd rather be in the latter than the former the peer to peer polar cast implementation was quite achieve and old but there's more we actually talked to the bureau I was the author of the polar cast paper and we're right now negotiating polar cast to rack up older cast basically to fix some issues that we discovered along the way we also have very extensive network documentation on the Haskell side it's about a hundred plus pages of that and we'll eventually release that at some point that's we wrote it's kind of a retrospective on what we've built so there's a lot of really good ideas on the networking side and we're kind of taking ideas from different people like promote Vaswani and the Barracuda ideas for accelerating proof of state polar caste for kind of a decentralized pub/sub and then what we've learned on these kind of self tuning peer-to-peer networks with with the Haskell side that also are not blocking so there's there's some really cool innovations that are there and they're kind of scattered a little bit one of the big colossal project challenges will be pulling all of them to one cohesive of networking vision the challenge is that we don't have just one network we have networks in many different ways we have what will be required for Hydra what's required for the MPC we have what's required for the state pools and then the general peer-to-peer layer and then kind of waste accelerated peer-to-peer layer and then the relay nodes as well and then the light clients and how they do things so there's all these different actors and these different personas kind of different network needs and different assumptions about the network so it's been difficult reconciling all of them because there's no canonical way of doing this I wish there was some standard protocol that we can just pull and say this is it for everything I mean you can look at things like G RPC and secur'd academia and so forth as a reference point but even then you have to kind of modify them a little bit for it so that's quite happy to see polar caps come out I think we're the first people to actually implement that so 2012 paper hello from dull gym was the Wyoming hackathon it's a good question it was great we were so excited to see these people they they even brought a bus the high school students down from it was a northeast part of state I don't remember which County but it was very small place I think I think it's like a class size of 50 but there it was really exciting to see all the different people there and Iran it's some old friends to trace Mayer was there and then also jesse powell from kraken was there caitlyn long was there and you know it's always great to talk these old school people like trace for example bill one of my favorite wallets from back in the day armory and if you're a student of bitcoin history you might remember that one but it you know it's just cool to see the progress they're actually trying to pass a law right now wyoming that will make it illegal for the government to force you to turn over your private keys so court would not be able to order you to turn over your private keys how about that that is a crypto friendly place man and they play hardball with these laws like they were holding repealing the entire money service business act the money transmitter act in exchange for getting the regulator's in the state to play ball it's like if you you know work with a son this will just fire all if you remove the law all together and money transmission will be completely unregulated in this day yeah so I love Wyoming I love the attitude I love the guests oh I love the balls these guys have and I just love how quickly they're moving it turned out they made some mistakes the legislation they had last year and actually fixed them the community said hey these are problematic and they said oh that's a good point let's fix that so that's a that's a good thing that's a really good thing so it was a lot of fun to go to the hackathon a lot of people wrote a lot of Plutus code they brought some marlowe code we got some good feedback it was fun to hang out with Jim Caldwell his apartment chair of the computer science department theris and went Cornell he's an interesting guy and uy is just great University it's not too far away well Neil because he makes money if I caught a show he makes money that's less we want he's go go do that get a controversy and then somebody shows up to address the controversy ratings go through the roof will the YouTube profits be shared with me and then what are you doing they're incentivizing people to repeat that behavior the best thing you can do is what the Simpsons did when they had that Treehouse of Horror episode and it was when all of the advertisements came alive and started killing people they played the song just don't look just don't look do-do-do-do and that's what we're gonna do go away unless Homer keep staring at the doughnut do you think every gang will be a crypto friendly President Andrew Yang will not be President the Democrats have lost their minds they're gonna nominate a crazy person who will lose and Trump will win makes me really sad that we have to keep dealing with this but I'm sorry you can't feel the candidate that says publicly we should have seventy percent tax rates and steal four percent of my money every year regardless if I make money or not you just cannot do that it's immoral it's wrong you can't have people say we should spend fifty trillion dollars on crazy infrastructure cuz reasons they are not offering solutions they're offering class warfare for the sake of power and America is too smart for that please stand Roos honest it just says I'll just give you free money here's a thousand dollars every month good luck everybody wim HOF arctic soon we've already begun the ice training bribry Brian McKenna one of our product managers he's working on a super-secret product that will announce at some point he's he's been jumping into the Irish Sea I'd like to believe that he's doing it naked but but anyway he's he's taking this very seriously ice baths cold showers jumping into the sea in the early mornings he's a scrappy guy we like we like bribe ride and he's getting ready Jer Maroney is the other guys going with me and we got to get him to start training I'm a bit a little tardy myself but you know wim HOF who's wim HOF you just you just call up and say when we got to go to Hanoi to count it's like cool let's do it and so we got to figure that out for those of you who don't know this story I'm planning on going down to mountain terror it's a mountain in Antarctica and we're gonna go climbing shirtless in probably close to the winter as close as we can get still being at Erika and with the Iceman guy named wim hof he has all the ice endurance records and then paramotor from the mountain down to base camp so we'll definitely tweet that there'll be four people there cheer Maroney Brian McKenna wim HOF myself we'll do two paramotors tandem I do crazy stuff like that never come to California anytime soon I just might go to the People's Republic of California you never done ah let's get one more question that was the situation in the Hong Kong affecting the organization not at all we're Wyoming yay kind of saw the writing on the wall there are you also going to drink that whiskey yes if we succeed the Mount Ayr escapade and don't die we will get a bottle of Macallan 30 and we'll down that sucker that's uh that's a celebration for a crazy crazy thing you got to have goals in life give me a good question that dawn kids hi pinky 21 you know how big he is gonna whisky if the rest code Gabriel touches mein net it it'll go through a security audit prior to that are you in the Illuminati well I do have the Illuminati mask behind there no out of atom wise off died guys he started the Illuminati in 1776 Barbaria it was an outcrop actually of the Jesuits and then when the Illuminati got stamped the members went back into the Jesuit Order and the Jesuits reformed other Illuminati branches they're still around doing their Illuminati stuff putting car down oh no it's its face get back the dollar a debt we probably will hi from South Korea hi hi hi Charles please look a victory cigar on live screen when Shelley is released on main that the trolls will be decides themselves you know I might actually buy a Lamborghini tractor and drive it the day we launched Shelley made that and smoking a cigar oh my I might actually do that that'd be great they say when Lambo come they have both hail Hydra yes we actually have a product manager for the Hydra team for horse Hydra we just put them on because the paper is almost done and now we need somebody to roll up everything and build a prototype so we can get it ready for next year and it's Rob Cohen is the name of the is the guy who's running that product and all of our email headers that going back and forth about Hydra in the subject of this hail Hydra we're having way too much fun with that name did I all right well nothing really that interesting so I guess we'll just clip it here all right well thanks guys for listening to the AMA we laughed we cried we were happy we were sad angry all emotions and despite all of it I love all of you I have so much fun doing these things I really do enjoy them especially on Sunday afternoons it's a it's a good way to spend some time this really is the best community so a lot of good things coming just to recap blog post coming soon staple channel on telegram keep using that we're going to try to make it more and more useful over time the incentivize test that comin soon we're working towards it if you find some bugs or issues go ahead use the get issues on the Jormungandr repo a lot of stuff on the Haskell side coming soon - so they're they're gonna have some fun in the market because they they want to play and the road to Shelley's begun March - Shelly's begun I look forward to seeing how many people are actually staking I look forward to seeing how many registered pools there are there's gonna be a lot of documentation improvements and the drum is beating hard and everything's starting to pull together and it's just beautiful to see that so thanks for sticking with it and until next time in Bocca al Lupo