Surprise AMA 04/25/2019

00:00 to 1:54:33

ever be Charles Hoskinson here on April 25th 2019 for another surprise MA the last day in May I did was kind of truncated as a result of statements we made about the road map and Shelley so I figured you know it'd be probably a good idea to come back and talk to you guys for at least for another hour because you know usually the Emmys are about two hours and you only got about an hour so that's not really that fair so so in the interest of of consistency let's let's get to it and I actually have tickets to go see Avengers and game tonight I have I'm going to 2:30 a.m. showing it's the only one that wasn't open so this is gonna be a lot of fun I'm gonna be really Beauty tired tomorrow but I've watched like 20 of these damn movies especially considering that they're airplane movies as I usually watch them while I'm flying across the sea and I'm just committed where I I'm a holder of Marvel I have to have to finish it anyway let's get straight to the questions not what do you guys want to talk about can we have access to the Haskell course which he provided for Ethiopia and other places so I've definitely been very interested in Luca fiying the Haskell course so certainly the complication there is that the format for the Haskell course is really just in the minds of Lars and Polina and the other teachers as well as a lot of documents and PowerPoint slides we did record some of the lectures but they're not in a format that would be really desirable for a MOOC it's almost like the old days of MIT course where when they just recorded classes and they didn't really think too much about online consumption so we have had some internal discussions about deploying those classes to some platform for example udemy we've already done a Marlowe and a Plutus trial class the subscriptions are very strong I think both through over 2000 and we have fairly good read ratings from Alejandro's class it's the first time we've ever done that as a company and for me it's a return to the platform since 2013 so it's been six years it's been a long time anyway we will notify those courses at some point I hope we can get something out of the summertime we actually have a gentleman named Jamie who's a computational logician working for AI which K who works under Mars and his responsibility is on icon so nothing right now but it is something that is a priority and as we look at the feedback we've gotten from the two udemy courses we've released we should definitely be able to take it to the next level we've also been planning to release a textbook in July for Plutus and there's somebody who told us we might be able to do in a Riley programming book for Plutus and for Marlowe so if that's the case we'll definitely pursue that after we finish the book that we're committed to finishing in July okay legend wallet support we are a sport ledger get with the times is there any security risk if I store my data in a Raspberry Pi for sneaking so one thing to understand about staking and one of the unique value propositions of Cardinal is that the devices and the infrastructure that stakes does not require for that infrastructure to also hold the spending keys for the value so let's say that you have a million Ada and you want to delegate that a dough to a stake pool you can either do your own pool you can delegate it to Bob school but nowhere in that process does it mean the private keys to spend that million a to get transferred to that state pool you're signing a special transaction to delegate to spending patoot staking keys so what that effectively means is even if the state pool gets compromised the worst that can happen is the state pool could behave maliciously for that epic but the value that's been delegated to it is never at risk so I wouldn't recommend actually storing your private keys that contain your money on state pool I think it's a much better idea to put them on a either a paper wallet or to put them on a ledger device or something along those lines which is very secure and then initiate a staking transaction and allow Dedalus or or the pool to to manage that okay what else we got here did don't call me peace doc you all summit no they're great people we really enjoyed having him there the summer was a lot of fun well let's avoid being listed on BitFenix you know we tried to get listed on bit for the next back in 2017 and they liked it not list us and now they say they are and I hope everything turns out okay for them although I have to admit you know the one time that I take the bait reach out to fit the next poll don't mention that he's listing ADA and I sent a message over Twitter saying hey if you have any questions we're here to help and then like four hours later the Attorney General's the heart drops something about this phonetic says oh come on you just can't win guys that's just not fair okay what else we got here give me some good questions guys it has dead Charles worked for cz instead he couldn't afford me and it is far from dead we're doing great we've never seen development velocity like this I'm actually getting a demo of the Haskell code tomorrow and that's gonna be a heck of a lot of fun and I hope to make that public sometime after it we're still working out how we're gonna make demos public but it's gonna be a it's going to be a fun thing to do you know yeah I get flooded with information as a CEO of this company we have over 200 people we generate enormous amounts of paperwork and documentation and progress reports and these types of things and you know some of it gets sanitized for public release but a lot of it doesn't and one of my mandates post summit was to be a bit more aggressive about taking things I receive and making those things get into the open domain so I hope we can get that done okay hi Charles congrats on Jameson will we see the dollar value in Dedalus wallet soon that's been requested a lot and you know we may or may not add it the problem is then you'd have to pick an exchange feed and we don't have like a a really consolidated feed of these things so we could certainly put an aggregate or a weighted feed but then we have to take a position on it and you know it's it's a feature that is not mission-critical that said I think the wallet that would adopt something like that would be Roy I and we've seen it in other wallets like Co pay for example and it is really nice so something will come at some point and frankly if you're Roy does it then it's gonna kind of force our hand I think for a later version what is the best thing you've eaten in your travels throughout the world I really like scorpion fried scorpion is delicious I'm very weird like that everybody thinks I'm crazy but you should try it at least once in your life Chuck is there a window staking option yes you'll be able to delegate from Daedalus to a stake pool and we will have a command-line interface state pool that works on Windows in fact it would be really nice to get it done no like a Windows package manager' like chocolaty or something like that so you can easily install it maintain it but that there will be windows support for station cuz I'm a Windows user myself I think windows great operating system get a lot of flack for that Shelley this year 100% no doubt in my mind I'll eat my own shoe and I wear boots these are hard to eat Charles you're a goat buddy I'm getting goats pygmy goats I'll take pictures he'll have sweaters as proof of stick actually been implemented anywhere are we going to be the first you know brutal mistake like all things miss generations and we saw multiple generations of Rufus take for example the first version that I'm aware of came from it was Sonny king and he released something called peercoin and peercoin was a proof-of-work proof of steak hybrid so the side-handle distribution had solved a few of the problems that proof of steak means I and that was in 2011 then the next major advancement for proof of steak with 10x t's proof of steak they've been around for quite some time and a lot of people are pretty happy with them I now ironically had their ecosystem been a better organized they could have eclipsed probably ethereal but they kind of let that one slip so that XT you know had its time and then the next generation of us is are coming Tasos has released something tender mint is now out so cosmos is running we obviously have water Boris I think theoretically from a theory viewpoint from mathematics people we're ahead of everybody in the entire space Bart from the implementation perspective you're actually pretty close to a production implementation of everything that we need so it's just question of you know what target you have theirs or Bohr's classic or problem or worse genesis or worse those or where's Chronos and so forth so you know we we have implementations of classic we have an implication of Krauss with Genesis rule we're still looking at what it would take to implement Chronos and thoughts because that would give us a cryptographic beacon and an NTP service from the network itself but the target for Shelley is or course prosperous Genesis chain selection and we have working implementation of that rust and a prototype implementation of that in Haskell so the rust implementation is likely the one that we're going to go to main net with noob question chances a 51% attack on proof mistake and how would we handle it so there's a practical way and you know there's a social dynamics way so first off you have a high market cap it's really really hard to stage a 51% attack for an outside attacker so I mean if someone has new position and wants to acquire a position the mere act of trying to quickly acquire a position would likely spike the price and as a consequence we've become systematically more expensive to attempt to acquire a large position then if that person wished to attack the network we'd have a lot of mitigations for this the first mitigation would just simply be doing a some form of a hard fork or a soft fork to freeze them out so basically that hostile 51% stake would get locked for some period of time and then the minority on a stake would basically run the network but there are other things like he can make sure that there's checkpoints produced in a relatively reasonable period of time you can even generate those was trusted hardware and they can sign it so there are a lot of things you can do to create a you know a good community consensus of history even in the event of a 51% attack and then there are social interventions and by the way those are devastating to the individual that they're applied against but actually have almost no effect on the network it just makes your eighth a more valuable if you know attacker gets frozen for a year because it launched a 51% attack just hard for 99.99% of the other people continue operating business as normal now there are burning business is normal with twice as much data so so I just don't see how 51% attacks are are super problematic for an actual real deployed network that's fairly decentralized and has the ability to preserve history and has layered security like trusted hardware and other such things and you know you have the theory and we've done a lot of things in theory and at this point we think we're feature equivalent with Bitcoin outside of recovery from dishonest majority there's some differences there that are becoming protocol but overall I'm pretty happy with where we're at you can run a stake pool on x86 in fact most people probably will the reason why we chose an arm device was because of cost we'd love to see if we can get these devices even working on a Raspberry Pi so if we could do that then basically it means your barrier to entry for setting up a state cruel to preserve and run the network is in the the cost factor of 50 to $100 whereas if it's an x86 device there's like Intel nuc or you know other such things that you could be in the four or five hundred dollar price point pretty comfortably but it's pretty hard to get to that $50 price point on on none on in an on arm ecosystem what exactly is the difference between Marlo and Plutus Plutus is a general-purpose programming language so it's it's like Haskell or you know it's like any standard functional programming language and it's been built from the ground up specifically to be really useful for writing smart contracts Marlow is a domain-specific language so it's turn incomplete and it's been built from the ground up specifically for financial contracts so the difference is that while you can implement financial contracts and Plutus it's an order of magnitude easier to implement them in Marlow in fact many cases you can visually construct them with the meadow IDE and you get more theoretical properties about Marlow that allow you to prove termination of the contract or that the contract is correct so Marlow is very minimal to templating whereas Plutus is more amenable to general-purpose programming so you kind of need both because the majority of code that's written probably will constitute some form of movement of assets between actors and so when you're talking about assets actors and Oracle's that's where Marlowe handles that very well then you can embed that within a broader program which handles all the other logic and then you can embed that with an even even broader program that handles all your off chain code for your client your server so it's almost like Russian dolls where they nest within each other I didn't say pee on my shoe I say I'll eat my shoe why is da Donnell McIntyre saying that proof of steak is not secure is there any validity to that you know he's not the only person and there's gonna be a lot of people do that um we've made our arguments very clear we have tons of proofs about these things we've taken these proofs from peer review at major academic venues and at this point I think it's really more of a religious fight than an academic or an argument fine you know if you're gonna say that this does not work then tell us where the priests are wrong tell us what about our assumptions are wrong tell us where we made a mistake in our homework it's it's almost like you have a kid come to you and say I've solved your integral or I've solved your derivative I've derived with us here you go and you look at you say the answer is wrong you say okay well can you show me what step I screwed up on and they say I can't well how do you know it's wrong is there an answer key somewhere riley's did God give us a book and tell us how to reach consensus and Thummim and you go flip the page to 16 and it says another proof of stake it says it doesn't work it's not secure I mean if you have such a book I'd love to see a copy of it in an absence of that the burden of proof is on your shoulders to show us where we're wrong and somehow our critics never seem to do that yeah we use static code analysis your team using any code analysis tools as part of your i'm devops reduce bugs yeah we do linting i we also use a variety of other things like golden test fuzzing and we also use property based testing so we can go above and beyond the standard static code analysis especially given that the code has a particular structure that may it's very amenable to property based testing and you don't commonly see that why is cardano's still correlated to everyone else makes me sad you know an existential issue happens to Bitcoin and tether we're not on bit FedEx we don't have any relationship with bit for necks or tether and you know these events they happen from time to time yet we seem to go down when everyone else goes down and it just shows you that the markets are where they're at and I really wish it wasn't the case because a lot of people are working really hard and our community's great I mean he has nothing to do with any of this that's recent news yet somehow we suffer because of that and that's just not fair it is what it is it's just the world we have to live in until we grow so large that we can decouple ourselves and that's a big priority do I need to have a website registered to operate a state pool no in fact you register your stake pool on blotching through Dedalus it's probably a good idea to set up a website tell people why you're awesome but the metadata fields alone could allow people at least get some information about who you are and it's your job to try to attract people to state to you once you have your own a to this thing those double doors lead outside now they need outside into my living room this is my home office I am 31 keep them coming rapidfire Charles what do you think of layer zero network architecture proposals to increase network throughput and scalability there is a huge deficit of research in our industry for the network stack there's been some attempts for example per collapse released lid p2p we've been doing a quite a bit of research with text decks like Rina we've looked at paper's like polar casts and other such things they have a discussion around a combination of different factors one is how do you do pub/sub in a decentralized system that is efficient and allows you to scale to millions to billions of users and subscriptions and how do you discover those pups up and how do you properly communicate with the people - what facts of life do you have to deal with when you're talking about things like UDP TCP IP and just fundamental network connections between people given existing infrastructure so if the firewalls and the wi-fi's and when people want to use VPNs or run this over tor these types of things and they tend to introduce all kinds of performance situations in operating environments which make it quite problematic to run a traditional peer-to-peer protocol another question is when you think about gossiping in the system you say okay well Bob is here and Alice is here and there's a big so there's a big graph of nodes that are connected to each other so how does Bob reach Alice when there's people in between how does that gossip through and what is the latency for that these are things that people study for a while so what are the advantages of a stateful topology is that you have known actors in the system who have been given special rights as a consequence of the operation of the protocol which means you can now connect to them and associated relays and because they happen to be there it creates a semi stable network topology so instead of assuming you're going to have this ever-changing graph that's highly dynamic you can say well I can always route through them and because they're probably connected to the majority of people they reach the majority people in one or two hops I can use them as a bridge it's a very least a way of discovering subscriptions a way of discovering other users and so forth as to though the existence of those actors combined with a lot of modern network protocols does provide you a way of massively accelerating these types of things and we've received several proposals from various academics about ways we can leverage these types of network topologies in the proof of stake system in general to massively improve network performance we've also seen people start realizing that the network stack is its own thing from the cryptocurrency and so as a consequence you could actually offer a network as a service so we've seen them in good seer and other people pursue this either for the mine pools like the Falcon relay network to other types of core infrastructure so it's something we think a lot about we've done some research work then everybody say networks back at some point we actually have several competing network specs within our own organization or there's almost a holy war between the different game he's in terms of the theater views on how to build these things and what makes sense and there's a big Delta between them so Shelley will have a pretty standard network stack but then shortly after launch we'll start converging to something a bit more specific and takes advantages and a lot of the things that we have in our system which are quite useful and frankly if you're gonna have layer 2 solutions and your use NPC and these other things you really do have to have a more resilient robust network stack so it's an under researched area if you look at the entire set of paper volume that's produced compared to consensus protocols and PC protocols and zero-knowledge protocols they're all here and you know the network guys are down here and that's that's really unfortunate I wish there was more innovation because we just simply use it our patent is important I don't believe so I don't think patents are relevant anymore and no we are not acquiring patents we don't have a single patent and we'll never apply for one it's an aesthetical to a open ecosystem to say that one company has a monopoly the meeting with Stephen Wolfram was great he's a wonderful guy he is you know a really interesting fellow I he's dogged Lee pursued a vision for over 30 years and like a dog with a bone he's probably just not going to give up on it my Mathematica has millions of users Wolfram Alpha has deals with Amazon Microsoft Google when people realize is also a big workable provider for the cryptocurrency space if you're reading cryptocurrency contracts and you say this will trigger when it's 75 degrees fahrenheit in this county well somebody has to provide that and Wolfram Alpha is a really good place to get that information so they're their gatekeeper and they're definitely a company to have conversations with and there are certainly partnerships one can dramatically what those partnerships that people could pursue that could dramatically increase the value of the interlining ecosystem I'm drinking black coffee in the morning I have bulletproof coffee I feel great see what else we have here I do listen to the Joe Rogan podcast and one of these days I'll try to get on the Jill Rogan podcast once we're a little further along with Cardinal Joe is an interesting guy yeah he's just first there is a huge value in learning how to have a conversation and listen so all Joe does he says who's an interesting person and invites that interesting person on the show and this could be topical to a controversy like when the James d'amour thing came up this can be like or another issue like the Evergreen State College with Weinstein work and be it just generally interesting person arranging from a famous comedian to Macaulay Culkin to you know a famous physicist like Neil deGrasse Tyson or or you know was a net reader or sam harris or something like that so he invites him on and starts a conversation with them some are very curious about mastic and larger than life just talk and talk and talk like Alex Jones and other ones like Elon Musk are very reserved and a little cagey and it's difficult to actually get them to say anything and what Joe does and why he's Joe so interesting is that he takes watcher the listener on Ernie he had questions that find a way to kind of break into the person and then to get them talking and then you just listen and you don't know where it's gonna go you know the thing about interviews that we've been fed over the last 70 years of media the journalist knows that someone's coming in the journalist has a collection of questions they want to ask and a direction they want to go and this can be a hostile interview it could be a favorable interview but in any event half the interviews are already done before the interview that starts because you sit down and they say okay well I want to ask him about this and there's gonna be a product launch and I want to talk them about that and there's some controversy here so we'll make sure to bring it up well what Joe does the exact opposite he has no idea usually when it guest comes of what they're gonna talk about or where they're gonna go and all he is is almost like a boatman navigating a that that he's never bent down before so he knows how to navigate he knows how to sail the boat he knows how to make it a fun experience but no one in the boat knows where the boats gonna go and if it's gonna capsize or if you're gonna get somewhere really cool and interesting and sometimes it's it's magical and other times it's not as good as it needs to be but that's okay so that's why I think the general experience is just such a great podcast and you know it's something that I hope that most media goes towards because it's not just joe rogan that matters there and it's also just our lives we meet people talk to people I've talked to thousands of people over the years and they all have stories that all are interesting people I find I really enjoy when I just shut up and listen and and I know I do we're not what we're talking about there are exceptions to that for example in a conference is everybody wants to sell me something or partner with me or something like that so you're listening for where's the hook where's the pitch what's it gonna be for example we had somebody come to us and say oh I love symphony of blockchains it's the best thing ever you guys are super creative and you're doing great design and I was like yeah there's gonna be a catch here there's gonna be a catch and I kept listening listening then I give us $25,000 and we'll get you to consensus yeah okay there's the catch right but when you're in that kind of a format then it's just like two guys at a bar or something like that and that's a lot more fun yeah the eye is definitely much healthier even hemorrhage thing bled into the eye really horrible out see here what does probability of a stake pool being chosen it is proportionate to the amount of ADA staked to the pool did I which K moved to Wyoming or not yet you go ahead and go to the secretary state website of Wyoming and look at input up with global we're there do you know who Satoshi Nakamoto is Satoshi is dead move on okay so I've been getting a lot of questions about the UIUC relationship and ke VM and yella so I which ke retained a one-year contract with run time verification and we put a few million dollars into the relationship and really we were exploring three different areas and one area it was is the K framework production-ready it couldn't be used as a foundational tool for the development of smart contracts and also for the analysis of languages that were used to write smart contracts for example K is being used with the formal specification of the ERC 20 token the K EVM you know things like that and ecosystem the second component was does semantics based compilation actually work so for those who are unaware of semantic space compilation semantic space compilation is basically this idea that you have a language written in K and the other line we've driven K and then somehow through the magic of SPC here it will take a program that's written in that language and then compile it to basically look like a program written in the other language and then run in that other language so in other words if you had the semantics of job compiled that Java program to then run on yellow and you wouldn't process every single time you update a language all you have to do is update the semantics of the language once and then all the programs just work and you can version all the way down so for example you go from Java 1.8 12 you just update your Java semantics and then when you have a 1.8 program you just pull the 1.8 semantics and SPC should work the exact same way that it works in 1.12 so this would be a huge advantage because every time you upgrade the underlying system you change yellow or change your virtual machine you just update one set of semantics and all the compilers work with million tuning or changes so you could conceivably end up supporting thousands of languages for your system and it's basically like Universal interoperability so the third part for the contract it was to explore efficiency so if this is machine generated code generally you performance hit for that and it can be quite significant a hundred to a thousand times slower than that and so we spent a few million dollars and a whole year a lot of papers were written formalization of KVM was done yellow was designed the K Televi and back end was implemented yeah k was rewritten in a Haskell framework I think it's over 70,000 lines of code and a great degree in inquiry was done into semantic space compilation now the problem is that the work was not concluded the K rewrites not quite finished and it's not at the production parity that it really needs to be to be parity with the older versions of K although that will inevitably get done the performance Delta for the machine generated code was not where it needed to be it's still about 10 200 times slower than handwritten code and there was no demonstration that SPC couldn't be fully automated yeah there was things that showed that it had promised but it wasn't quite where it needed to be yet so we had to look at her road map and say okay where do we cut and there were two areas where we decided to scale back ambitions for 2020 one was let's take a break with KVM and yella and just get Plutus and marlow out throughout 2019 and then surveyed the situation after the end of 2019 were the industries that and the other was Reena we scaled Reena back a bit we went with kind of a mini Reena design with our network stack so what does this mean it means well RB is an open company other work is open source yella is a complete product it can be used and some people have expressed a desire to use that K is an open source product is being used in the etherion ecosystem and they continue to do research along those particular topic lines but we did decided not to renew the contract with our V for 2019 we kind of just took a break and said well we'll come back to it 2020 and we'll take a look at where you awesome to that we'll take a look at where Waze and huazi is at as an ecosystem and what aetherium sakam push and also take a look at what our visa accomplished over that course of a year and where their investments have taken them and then we'll make a decision whether to suanne in contract or if we want to pivot in a different direction for interoperability there's a lot of options that exist they weren't the only vendor in town but there was a lot of good merit and very attractive stuff there and we really really wanted to see if by giving an injection of capital they'd be able to get it over the finish line but you know as with the case of all things when you go from a dollar 8 and billions of dollars a cap project capital available to 5 cent the 10 cent a time much less project capital you do have to cut around the edges and this was one area that we decided to cut a little bit so we'll come back to it in 2020 and see what it looks like in the meantime Plutus and Marlo are actually scale the teams up considerably and we also scaled the tooling infrastructure around it and we're getting very close to actually get look and it's but the fact already looks about buddhists and reading publishing papers that PL conferences about Plutus and we have active tooling like the buddhist playground and meadow that ecosystem is not is is is not slowing down it's speeding up actually and there's a huge amount of developer interest so 2019 is all going to be about blueness and it's all going to be about that roadmap and then 2020 is going to be the interoperability era you know how do we bridge the gap to the rest of the stuff and Yela can certainly be part of that story as can Kay and you know there are other options as well the world moves on and there's dozens of great projects in space and we bet on one that we thought we've really attractive and promising it just felt to me almost like an ACEF project more than a commercial project where we had spent a lot of time effort money but there really wasn't a delivery culture set up that could get us to a point where we'd have a 1.0 product there and so we could invest millions and millions and more dollars chasing that but I didn't get enough information as a CEO that made me feel comfortable to spend that money you know there was something that Steve Jobs once told Johnny eyes where Steve Steve said you know Johnny you're a very vain guy and johnny was fit for flexing he says what do you mean he said that you know you never say no to you know you always want to say yes I think Johnny says oh I say yes - no - lots of things what do you mean that's just that's just mean up he said no no no no you you only achieve great products when you say no to things you really want to catch you have to make hard choices and you know Johnny thought for a minute he said yeah that's that's actually true you know uh you know usually when you say will kill this or kill that it's something that you already wanted to kill and it's probably dislike it's when you have things in your roadmap that you really love and you think are amazing and awesome that you end up for the sake of resources or other considerations pruning those are the hard choices that you inevitably have to make in products and that's the difference between a research product and a kind of a fantasy product or an academic product and an actual product that gets shipped to the consumer that has impact it's not to say that eventually you can't have these things but they have to be put in the roadmap and done with iterations and the big challenge of going from a giant aspirational project like card on off to card on a 2020 is about saying well there's a delta between what we aspire to do and what can be delivered in a reasonable period of time now the good news is that we've done so much research and we've learned so much about building cryptocurrencies that the Delta there is actually not as big as people would think and that a substantial portion of the things that need to be delivered for Cardinal I think to be a world of fundamental operating system are conceptually it in place we kind of understand how these things fit together and the dynamics of where to put the protocol and we have the nice evolutionary factors in the protocol that I think will inevitably get us to close that long tail but just like self-driving cars or anything else you know these things just take time and there's there's old there's always this long tail of research that needs to be done to close that last 5% sorry Barbara you're probably gonna have to buy a new device I think legend is moving in the X direction not the blue eyed Andrew K is back our resident troll and we're gonna remove him how about that bye Andrew Cheers okay let's see what else we got here guys I live on a ranch and I make best effort to have the best internet and my have two options where I live well three one option is CenturyLink and the best thing giving is one point five megabits per second I had a mad as a backup but I don't use it the second option is 4G which is through the 18 t network and I get between 30 to 50 mb/s and sometimes I come through clearly sometimes I don't and the third option is satellite which is about the same throughput and the difference is the latency is about 700 milliseconds to 1100 milliseconds for the signal so I opted for 4G I have no other options where I'm at you know what's almost like the story of Tantalus I live just a few miles outside of Longmont if I was in Longmont proper fastest internet in the entire United States with misalliance big I'm just tantalizingly close to that but I'm too far away so this is the best internet you're gonna get I'll start doing some of these from our office once the carpets in you have everything else set up and the quality it'd be a bit higher outside of that you know deal with it if you play around with bat reward recently luncheon brave yeah it's pretty cool stuff I I do have some bats token and you know I I have used brave a little bit I still like chrome but I might switch over to brave I'm not sure I gotta figure out this whole monetization thing this is not my core business what else we got here well the legend will it be compatible with Daedalus eventually yes in fact the Raptor doing that is through the Russ Kwan and it's definitely something we're gonna get done but I do absolutely want to have legend working with Daedalus it's very very important to me you know I have as large holder of ADA to have a heart or a solution alongside multi-sig so not only do we need to get ledger to work we need to let you to work with a multi six solution and these two things are coming now you can't say cromoz data garbage because chrome brave runs on Chrome as does now edge which is modern Internet Explorer and a litany of other browsers including Mozilla are running on their own systems now can't what else do we have here is at Allah open source yes and we'll open the repos at some point it's all Scala code everything we do as a company is this open source thoughts on proof of sequential time consensus simple proofs of sequential work Brent cones work with the rest of the gang actually won the best paper award at Yura crypt its peer reviewed good scientists are fine a great team Bram's a great engineer and i think it's a huge innovation for the space so I'm very bullish on that gia Charles why is the last minute Shelley test the configuration took a month already the others yeah well I which came up through a dunno yeah we've airsoft for the win another user or deaf put it in the timeout and I'm kind of liking this I wish I had a button for it any updates on e.t.c as I mentioned last AMA we're gonna submit a proposal to various people there and my hope is that we'll be able to get a proposal funded import a lot of great innovations we've come up with to the e.t.c ecosystem should that should that not be successful we're gonna retire working on the Atlantis client it's all open source people can do whatever they want with it but we'll stop active development and consume so it's the at this point the community's decision if they want Iowa chair round and they'll have to open their wallets I spend a million and a half dollars of my own money so I would really really like to see a commitment from the e.t.c community and it opens the but interesting existential question of if they're unwilling to pay for infrastructure providers to keep the ecosystem going then is that a viable ecosystem so the if the question is upon their shoulders that's how it's actually paid Bob and a cell or she waiting for Cogan and planning on running a Marlo contract so Marlo in Plutus will be supported on SL you'll be able to write a cell contracts so the point of Marlo is to be a financial contract language the point of a cell is to be a financial contract settlement system so the point of CL is this idea that there's going to be other computational paradigms whether that be ephemeral domains like NPC circuits or federated systems like lightning or completely other cryptocurrencies that use replicated computation like the EVM and it makes no sense to try to pull them all into one ledger it overly complicates the system it makes it difficult upgrade it so you'd like they'll move value state from from one system to another system so we developed a two layer paradigm so we can on the top layer take all those solutions and thread them into Cardno put easily and then at the base layer it's all about settling using the best language as possible which is marlowe and the Plutus kingsnake from your on your right probably will have capabilities to delegate so you can manage your your your ADA there will be a delegation center there and you'll be able to select the state : delegate to the pool your ROI itself will not be able to stick you'll be able to manage your delegation to other people through that system is I which a still working in consulting with storm project IOH Kay never worked with the storm project I was a consultant for storm they never paid me I never asked them for anything you know they were supposed to give me some storm they never got around to it I never really did a lot of work with them I like the core team in particular I really liked one of the people who work there are you she's no longer there but I thought store was pretty cool because it had a way of bringing people into cryptocurrency space but I which K never had a relationship with them whereas that which kid does have a relationship with horizon and it's do I are you planning on any more Haskell courses in Africa more likely than not in Uganda tarek if you're having issues with Dedalus and you're probably not going to be able to fix debtless so I'd recommend migrating to you Roy and then erasing your installation of Daedalus and just waiting a bit for a major update when we flip out the core code this is why we created you Roy with a mergo there are just a certain group of users for some reason they can't get there while it's working we have a help desk we're there to help we'd received thousands and thousands and thousands of support tickets we have FA queues and we're Wellborn willing to follow people through and and get things working and for the overwhelming majority of users at this point Louis's working very well for them but for some group of people for some reason Daedalus is not working well for them so the entire core of the software is being rewritten and when that occurs it's another entry point to see if Daedalus will work for you but in the meantime I just switched to Uriah you have both mobile and chrome option and there's a way to import a Daedalus wallet into your product is rapidly iterated your cams keep going yes paper I am reading your messages well Carano consider making us table appointing this name waymaker doubt creates that Iowa's CDP's you know we have had a lot of conversations about stable coins and what to do there I suppose it's about time to get into the tether bit next controversy is something that got dropped on us just about a few hours ago so I turn agenting rule of New York release basically outlining the results of an inquiry between the state of New York and the lawyers behind BitFenix and tether so there are two law firms Morgan Lewis Bach iasts and Steptoe Johnson once a DC based firm that's tiptoe and the other one is a new york-based firm that are representing the principles behind v of x and v max is kind of a hold is a sassy area of a holding company called iPhone X so basically a tethered bit phonetics iPhone X all these things are together and they have the same ownership structure and they're the 800-pound gorilla in the change world they have billions of dollars of assets Heather is a hugely important part of our ecosystem about 80% of all Bitcoin volume trading volume is in some way connected to Heather and for a long time people have had a lot of questions about whether tether is solvent whether bits and X is solvent whether everything is completely legitimate on board and some of this has been frustrated by these entities existing in offshore jurisdictions and some of this has been frustrated by a lack of transparency there's ample none of the big four auditors have published public statements saying there was a full reserve it seems that banking partners have been a bit skittish and and the banking partners they do have or are not large credible banks back in 2007 there were Taiwan banks that were part of BitFenix and then after March of 2017 because Wells Fargo wanted to cut that relationship those banks were threatened to lose their correspondent bank relationships unless they stopped servicing 15 X so then BitFenix moves - something called noble bank international and that was around September of 2017 and they processed things there but it was bit small not easy to get wires in it out expensive and not an ideal banking partner so somewhere along the way they chose to give 850 million dollars to a company catalog called crypto Capital Group Corp in this company basically silently acted as a payment processor for them apparently you know there was no contract between bit FedEx and their principles in this crypto Capital Corp which is astounding to me they have nearly a billion dollar deal and no contractual relationship just an oral relationship and the in critical capital port basically stopped processing withdrawals claiming that the their capital had been frozen in Poland a Portugal and in the United States so then BitFenix was left in a difficult position where they had basically almost a billion dollars of assets in the hands of a third party who was supposed to service withdrawals and now they no longer had access to that so they according to the Attorney General did what all companies do when they're faced with tough business decisions and they happen to have a giant pool of reserved capital the case the reserve backing of tether they provided themselves alone get it basically collateralized by equity of their company around six hundred twenty five million if I read the Attorney General's response and the loan terms were reasonable basically a six and a half percent interest or something like that in a three-year term so so basically tether went from being 100% asset factor so if the next claims to now partially backed by US dollars and then the remaining is backed by equity and fit FedEx the challenge here is that all these entities are related to each other tether if an X - X and there's apparently just two principles there that control the structure and there's not a lot of transparency or oversight and unfortunately for v and X turns out that they have service customers in the state of New York which is she dragged there are business Nexus into the state of New York and given New York regulators a great creative power and control over Max's operations as an MSP so so this is a this is a difficult thing for our industry tether is a major linchpin and a lot of training liquidity it's for a lot of traders rely on it being solvent and existing and stable I and BitFenix is a major exchange in our entire industry and the challenges that if BitFenix was to collapse and a lot of retail investors get into a big herd in fact in the document that I read it from the Attorney General they actually wanted to enjoin normal operations for bits next they wanted to continue trading legitimate assets and tether because it specifically did not want to disrupt retail investors so this is just a natural consequence of our industry being very young when you go from unregulated the pseudo regulated to offshore jurisdictions you're bound to have situations where perhaps not the best controls are put into place and unfortunately the legacy banking world doesn't seem to really want to work well with us and as a consequence and a whim of a hat an entity like Wells Fargo can just mandate well you're not going to be able to process payments anymore and that it forces an entity to to have to scramble and move billions of dollars to other entities increasingly more difficulty restrictions and all the while you have a lot of competitors and they're eating your lunch so you have to maintain a great hope that everything gets cleaned up and I think's end up for the best for everybody and like like you guys I have information beyond what's been publicly released its Nexus one of the few exchanges on which Kay has known was no relationship with and no conversations with back in 2017 they expressed an interest in listing ADA and they wanted to put a large sum of money to do that we don't play that game and for two years no listing occurred and recently CTO mentioned that they are planning on doing a listing in which case we said well look we're always here for technical support if you have any questions about the API is the clients these types of things were quite happy to provide that type of assistance as we do all of our exchange partners but anyway it's it's a difficult situation and I hope for the best that everything works its way out and everybody is ok [Music] okay anyone else I was CCR at the summit is great they got this new guitarist who's from Sundance Wyoming is like 300 people in that county and he can play like Fogerty he's really really good they're great band they rocked like crazy we got within 5 feet of them while they were rockin I still have some hearing loss from that and that's that's a good way to go deaf so that was quite fun with that my guys give me some good questions we're almost done Charles what are your thoughts on negative interest rates from banks and they were discussing this to be implemented guys is one of the reasons why cryptocurrencies need to exist there will be a time in many developed nations throughout the world that you will have money in a bank and you will be charged a fee to store money in that bag you think of this business model you give a financial institution your money your money they have possession of it and are allowed Hey so it's like saying I'm going to give you my car and I'm gonna let you operate that car with with you know Hoover okay so you do that and instead of them paying you for having your money you now have to pay them so under the you brunette elegy not only do I have to give you my car I have to pay you to take my car so then you can go on and make money from it at what point do we take a step back and say the entire system is a fraud and this entire system is is is really eat in a disgusting state you know I'm sorry if you live in a system where you are giving your property somebody and you have to pay them to hold it like it's radioactive waste when they're able to monetize that then that system is fundamentally against you the consumer so what's gonna happen in the next 10 years stable coins will be a resolved business one way or another and they will not require the legacy banking system to work somebody's gonna figure it out it's gonna emergently come out of our industry either through the central banks like what bit is doing with the ECB or through algo coins which becomes sufficiently liquid and stable and have enough depth that they reasonably hold their value within a delta but something's gonna happen whereas stapled these coins are going to exist at that point if negative interest rates come you'll see ain't gargantuan exodus of legacy money into the crypto space because what choice do I have if I have a million dollars in the bank and they're charging me five percent to hold it in there of course I'm gonna convert it into a stable point you know that would be just just stupid not to they have negative carry-on liquid assets so I think that you know this whole talk at the g20 and with the World Bank the BIS and these other guys about the concept of embracing these these insane policies is just going to drive further crypto adoption I and whether it happens in five years or 10 years or 15 years it will come and it's gonna make crypto BEC so yeah these BitFenix things are tough and you know the markets tough but the fundamentals are with us you know you no longer need a bank to be your payment system you no longer need a custodian to hold your assets this is being built real time by great engineers some at my company some of other companies somebody's gonna win and a stable point will come and that stable points can be awesome and at that point you gotta your damn mind to charge you negative interest rate [Music] and also why do you need FDIC insurance because you're worried about the bank becoming insolvent you're worried that a bank run will happen or some entity will occur and the bank owes at a business because their fractional-reserve their loan portfolio defaults which case they no longer have enough money to pay you so the government comes in and says we're going to share those deposits but if you have a full reserve you have all the money you possess that money yourself you don't need insurance because it's a full Reserve you're like what sharing against you no not you somehow losing your full Reserve there's no creditor you've given the money out to so so that whole system is unnecessary alright come on guys give me some interesting questions and it's it is so funny you know this whole industry is because of the malfeasance of the banking industry and we just keep getting bigger and we're prominent smarter keep getting better partners and some of the smaller governments are basically a lot of them to create a movement it's coming it is definitely coming hey-ohh blockchain identity yeah let's talk about that that's a good question so the identity management side of our industry is a very fertile and rich space and when you're innovating you have to ask how much do we want to build within our project and how much do we want to borrow from people who are already innovating in our space for example we didn't invent UTX oh we didn't invent a lot of ways that Ledger's are structured or the Merkle tree all these things existed before and they're fundamentally good ideas so we said let's take them and let's just refined them make them better and make them useful for us instead of in trying to create a completely new accounting system or a completely new authenticated data structure or others to add F&B is much the same way so there's really a few different parts of it getting one part is the how do I identify you assuming that the data the the rent would have trust all of these has already exist so you already have some system of a testing that people are you already have a PKI it just I need to find you and I need to actually look up the information about you so there's a standard for that that's called the D ID standard it's from the w3c and basically it stands for a decentralized identifier D ID and it's basically you are round it's a three-part code the last part is to look up now the D ID is attached to what's called the D ID document and the document has all these facts and claims about the person and it's self Athina cating so within the D ID are the keys to cryptographic essentials you need to verify that that documents legitimate now the second part of this is the actual room of trust of your system how do you establish a namespace and say this code belongs to this person this code belongs to this person and how do you establish who is who like the Authenticator this is the bootstrap problem now you can do this on a personal basis example web of trust with PGP I would have a PGP key you'd have a PGP key we'd meet each other at a club or a conference or something like that I'd look at your PGP key and I'd look at your passport or stuff and say yeah I think this is reasonable and I would sign it and then eventually get a lot of weight in that system so I have hundreds of signatures and not kind of a public figure so people's alright Charles is now kind of like a certificate authority is kind of a root of trust so any signature coming from Charles probably it has a lot of weight so if Charles says you're Bob I think you probably did his homework that's the kind of a semi decentralized system that relies on reader documents now those are things to establish whether trust you also can build federated systems for example the way the web works for certificate authorities you get many different ones and you have roots underneath them and you say okay I trust this CA my broth trucks it and that's why the my my web address appears green with a little walk and then you also can have a centralized system like a corporate registry for example Microsoft can be a crutch for its own employees so Microsoft can have a master key and when you join Microsoft they sign your key and now you have a legitimate Microsoft key ok so you have an options to be a decentralized system for roof trust a ferry system for roof truss or centralized system for you to trust then there are two things you think about within that namespace one is facts and the other is opinions so facts are things like Charles Hoskinson is 31 Charles Hoskinson was born in Hawaii I mean either true or false and these are you staying now you can get into all kinds of things of what is the burden of evidence to establish that a fact is true and that's an interesting conversation it does generally require some sort of for me to trust behind certain things like a birth certificate for example or a social security number or some sort of a trusted a tester for example if you assert you have a diploma or a license like you say you're a doctor well it's pretty easy to verify that in the least in the United States medical professionals credentials are attached to a state so I say my father's a doctor people can actually look him up he has a medical license to Colorado state of Wyoming and those are publicly known credentials so if you assert you have something there's usually a governing body that controls that and then they're in charge of air finding those facts so that's the fat component of identity now the opinion component is qualitative so it's one thing to say mark Costas it's a doctor it's another thing to say he's a good doctor okay that's a totally different statement because it's subjective when you say he's a good doctor it's not not the global you it's not the global weed it's a particular person like Alice says he's a good doctor Bob's is a good doctor so the first question you ask is well who the hell is Alice or Bob to know that you know how do we know they're credible people how do we know they actually have a real opinion like it would be one thing if Alice lives in the same town and as a patient is been a patient for five years of that physician and there's evidence that Alice's life was saved as a result of that physician it's another thing entirely if Alice has never met the person and lives in a completely different country and it is just some random person over the internet and it's the same qualitative claim this person is a good doctor but that there's a huge amount of context that's connected to the person making the claim so opinions about people are referential so any identity management system actually has to be able to cover all three of these particular domains it has to be able to cover first the ability to find identities and store information with that the opinions are facts about them it has to have some sort of opinion on a root of trust whether that be centralized federated or decentralized and then it has to be able to reconcile facts and opinions and allow both of these things to exist furthermore you have to have the ability to revoke identities within the system in fact often times can you talk to cryptographers they say look the single most important thing in any identity management system is the ability revoke credentials because therein lies the the weakest point in the system in the most difficult point of the system to manage without centralized control especially in a decentralized system so there's been a lot of innovation in our space there's this concept you can look up called self sovereign identities there's a lot of books like from Bitcoin to Burning Man that actually talked about this there's something called the identity foundation so if you go to identity dot foundation you can actually all the members there and there's a big consortium and there's actually dedicated projects that do nothing but this for example a hyper ledger in d-ind why is an identity ledger specifically for handling identities there's another one called the sovereign foundation which is focused on this so it's a very well researched area I'd say of all the three areas the first one has been solved there's a standard now from the w3c for di D it's a very good standard it's SSI compliant it's just a good idea it's the URL and the website for identity I which can will support that in its product lines it's coming into atala it's coming into card on o the D ID idea is fundamentally sound the root of trust idea you can store the D ID documents you can store the D ID identifiers you can store information about the roof trust so some pre-shared keys some sort of foundational stuff in a blockchain structure for example i which k will have some identity we'll probably put that into the card on a blockchain and our software will be aware that that's an i which kate credential almost like a certificate root authority so for our software we can double e sign that I have builds that people know or legitimate it's a really good place to put these types of credentials but it is an open question of well moving beyond that you know what's the best way of managing that and where do you get your foundational injections of trust bootstrapping Trust to to get the system where it needs to go and that's still a very much an open question then facts are easy there's all kinds of people that deal in facts and it's just loading the system up with those fact brokers and then they make us certain people make claims and then there's verification of those claims auditing of those claims opinions are difficult because they're referential and that's more of a communal thing and what generally ends up happening is emergently a social network will have certain truths over the long run float to the top Wikipedia is an example of that you look at highly controversial people like Obama or Trump the Wikipedia articles for Obama and Trump actually tend to be very reliable and they tend to be very factual and if you look at the discussion pages and the amount of it's done it's always a war but it's a it's a war with a lot of people in all sides working and as a consequence it tends to converge to the minimum viable set of collections of statements you can make about the person and you get a pretty good sense of what's going on whereas other articles which have less participation a feedback tend to be less reliable for example when you're talking about stuff or very boutique topics or biographies of smaller people they tend to just basically either be written by the person themselves or by their fans so they get wildly biased and then information you're getting those qualitative assessments can either be heavily negative or heavily positive but they don't tend to converge to something that's good so that's another open problem in indenting management system now from our part at Cardno one of the things we will do is presuppose that there exists a real trust which does happen yes Tony it exists you have driver's licenses you have passports these things exist and then basically elodi ID embedding within transactions so how that works is that you have Alice and Bob and what happens is that alice is going to send a transaction to Bob and so what she'll do is she'll embed in the metadata associated with the traction publicly connected to the transaction or to encrypt them with some form of information maybe the private key of the sending key and maybe you encrypt it with you know excuse me the public her public key or something and then encrypt it with Bob's public key so only Alice and Bob can decrypt the the metadata and because they possess those particular private keys they're able to decrypt it but no one else can so you can create an office gated D ID so what does it mean it means an auditor comes in Alice can then show that the transaction wasn't connected to her and connect it to Bob these two things were there and that basically can turn that information over and it's time-stamped and auditable and non refutable but it's not it's not publicly available so we'll support that for metadata and getting and there's all kinds of thing you can do now one really really really cool idea that's associated with this is this concept of contingent settlement I mentioned my last day maybe but I'll mention it again because it's something that I I really really really love and that's basically the concept of I have to get permission from the person I'm sending funds to to send funds to them this is a big problem with Bitcoin you have Alice and Bob Bob hasn't address Alice figures it out one way or another maybe it's on a website maybe it's a exchanged address who knows and Alice just pushes value to pop it's a push system so Bob receives it well if Bob has regulated business or if Bob is is some sort of organization that has a business policy behind use of funds and receiving of funds I can make Bob a criminal all I have to do is just go give someone in North Korea a very small amount of Bitcoin and say okay go ahead and send this to Bob's address and then suddenly they've now receive funds from no effect listed jurisdiction and so that's a real problematic for Bob and also there's all kinds of commercial cycles where you want some sort of assurances from the person you're sending funds to that that person is adhering to a certain policy for example let's say you run an exchange you know you're running Charles exchange and then one of the customers is going to withdraw some funds 50 bitcoins from Charles exchange that's a big transaction it's a lot of money so they give you an address and they said here's my address I'd like you to withdraw to that well I would love to get some verification that you own that address remember we're talking about exchange so you've already gone through kyc and AML there is no notion of privacy here I know who you are I know who your account belongs to I'm reporting that information to a regulator let's not pretend that that's not happening that's a regulated business so this is for your benefit as a consumer I would like to know that before I push that 50 Bitcoin to the address you provided me that a man-in-the-middle attack didn't happen and someone switched the address and then I get some extra assurances that your account has not been compromised how let's say you have it sent decentralized identifier well what I can say is I'm going to require you to embed your did into our to the transaction and sign it before the transaction settles so what does it mean it means that the only person who could do that is the person who has the corresponding private key to the dead so in other words pop so I'm not going to send any transaction won't sell I'll create a pending transaction with this contingent requirement and the only way can settle is if the person who owns that address it signs it with the particular identifier that I have registered on on file so what does it mean means that your account has been compromised and also your identity has been compromised so these are two separate things I don't have anything about your identity I just know what it is but I don't have your private keys for that so even if your account gets compromised doesn't correlate your identities also can be compromised it gives you added insurance now what does it mean for the Auditor I now have proof that I sent it to you not reputable digital proof because there's a signature connected to it so the customer can't come back to me the exchange would say oh you were compromised and you paid the wrong person I'll say no no I have non-repeatable proof that your identity is connected to this transaction and the only reason it executed is because you can send it and signed it so you can think of this for donation deeds you can think of this for exchange withdrawals I just mentioned you can see this for trade finance deals you can see it for supply chain deals where it doesn't move from one stage the supply chain to the next stage until the warehouse confirms what the delivering person is saying there's all kinds of things in life that require contingent settlement and if you have the ability embed information like metadata into that transaction in particular the identity that's a big deal and it's something that's fundamentally absent for Bitcoin so if any Bitcoin maximalist says bitcoins perfect it's completed as no problems can take over the entire world then ask them how they solved the contingent settlement situation and they look at you with a blank face you don't even know what the hell you're talking about it just shows you they're not really thinking about how real-life commerce works the new horse is great it's a rescue horse paid $500 to adopt it yeah I had a friend who did dressage and she she jumped horses was Georgina Bloomberg and all these other people and those dressage horses some of them were over a million dollars a million dollars for a horse I can't understand it I paid five hundred for my horse and I was like man I guess that's that's a fair price horses are expensive they develop all kinds of weird health problems yeah yeah you always have to have a vet doing something but you love them they're great pets yes cargando is implementing contingent settlement 100% it's a business requirement and one of the reasons it's taking a little bit of time to get going and Chile where they want to go are these next-generation features that we want to do we just have to make sure that they work properly because we're the first people to really do this you know when you want to innovate you have to pay an innovation price that's okay we mostly paid it but the way another cool thing about the D ID is that you own that the data associated with it the control over that that's a private public key pair and it's an infrastructure where those files exist on a blockchain encrypted or otherwise and so as a consequence you have unrestricted access to and people can't check out governments can revoke documents like that support serve driver's licenses it's real hard to revoke it so you can flee a country and you can still prove all kinds of facts about yourself and still interact and do business with people even if you had to leave Syria or something like that that's a very powerful thing do you think Elizabeth home should go to jail you know there is a great book called bad blood and there's some documentaries that are on marketing there's also a Hollywood movie coming out about Elizabeth Holmes CEO of fairness so for people who are were unaware Elizabeth Holmes was the CEO of a company called Theron owes their nose asserted that they had this magic technology a little box that he basically could use with a single drop of blood and they would tell you all these things about your your blood tell you diseases you have or if you have diabetes or AIDS or something you'd be able to verify all these things or HIV I should say from from this black box now this would be a major revolution because normally you'd have to take vials and vials of blood and run it through expensive lab equipment and there's a holy day turnaround and be able to take a finger prick what functionally mean that you could sell these to people to have in their homes or Walgreens could have them and basically as part of your daily shopping you just go over the machine you know pull out a tab click put it in and boom you get a report emailed t or not you know securely and you'd be able to see if you're healthy or not you have some problems or not now if that was real it would be a revolution in medicine and really would be like on par with the invention of antibiotics yeah especially given that you can add more capabilities the consumerization of this would actually turn all of these tests into a big data problem and then suddenly you'd have an overwhelming amount of information you we'd also eventually start talking about personalized medicine where you could start understanding basically what to give people based upon their genome and their labs instead of just average dosage and I was like the power of these types of things so great so it wasn't a coincidence that this persuasive person was able to get a lot of people in Silicon Valley to invest enormous sums of money in her about 900 million dollars and she had a very good board director she had Henry Kissinger and general mattis and all these other people are being real people but then when you peel the surface layer the surface story up is this brilliant female entrepreneur who's the Stanford dropout basically is is trying to make herself the next deep job she even wears the black turtlenecks and talks with a artificially deep voice and has all these strange mannerisms and tried to be as rude as Steve Jobs when you start peeling those layers back from deep and feel it really doesn't race the scientific method and peer review and really does have a long cycle of innovation takes a long time to get FDA approval on devices and medicine there were really any papers or other things coming out of their nose that would indicate the data actually solve the problems like if you can track their nose to eye ohk we have a long publication record if you know a government agency was to start investigating our company and say well you said this and this and this provide the documentation for these claims we'd have thousands of pages of documents and actually a lot of them were even sitting in the public domain especially the scientific research so you just do a data dump and you say here you go you know have fun reading all this math and then they have to go find some cryptographers to read it and say well what's fact and what's fiction whereas Thoreau knows there was nothing behind the curtain there was no science behind that there was no grand engineering behind that would provide ample evidence that the claims that Elizabeth were making to Walgreens to the military to other actors were real and in many cases there's actually evidence to the contrary and there was when investigative journalists started tearing the company apart a whole bunch of whistleblowers and other people who are shouting as loudly as they could this company is a scam these things are not real the competitors what black Corp and others been this field for a very long time very very good scientist behind him lots of pathologist lots of pharmacist lots of PhDs they had pretty sophisticated understanding what you can and can't do with the state-of-the-art of lab equipment we're saying there's just no way that parados has what they claim they have unless you know elizabeth is the next Einstein or something like that so despite the fact that there were huge amount of red flags despite the fact there were whistleblowing employees despite the fact that you don't see this type of innovation i and in this type of industry the way it is pharmaceuticals and biotech is a long arc endeavor you see victories in every decade you don't see victories every month like we do the software it was mostly ignored by Silicon Valley so the real story about their nose is not that they were a scam and that she made it all up and she probably will go to jail the real story there is how could so many intelligent people in Silicon Valley who are billionaires and paid to be geniuses get it wrong how could they lack basic due diligence when you say you have a magic box that does something well you know it before I would invest in that I'd say give me the magic box I'm gonna give you ten random samples I'm not going to tell you anything about them and I'm gonna see if the magic box gets it right and I want the magic box in my office not your office in your controlled environment I want it in my office and if the person says no no no you can only do it in my facility you know and all your competitors want to invest in me I say great you take their money and burn it to the ground you know all the time people come to me with this state-of-the-art great technology brand new way do proof just a brand new way to do scalability new CK snark thing new privacy thing you know and I say great showing the papers you've written and a lot of cases they don't have one or they say I can't show it to you because I don't want you to steal it and I say well that's fine take it to somebody else Yost has a lot of money maybe they'll like it but I'm not interested because I have basic principles behind the way I've done business I got these principles from being in business for a while and from earning four people have been business a lot longer than me like Don Valentine and all these others on YouTube basically tell you how to get a company and the same way Sequoia did it in the seventies I mean it's not rocket science these VC guys write books so they have a model yet somehow Thanos was exempt from that model and they were allowed to say things do things and act in a way that no other company in Silicon Valley is really allowed to do especially when we're talking about the topic of human health and it so it was a great failure and I think the real story is how will Silicon Valley regain its credibility on the back of this it's perfectly fine to have a bit of puffery when you're talking about social networks and cellphone applications and these customer acquisition plays at the end of the day if it fails you've lost them rich people's money and you know is some code that didn't work the way you thought it was it's not okay to have puffery when you're talking about medicine or biotechnology because when you lie then people die money can be replaced you know people take risks some cases is just like gambling for them when people die they can't be replaced in their notes basically gambled on that side of the spectrum I'm betting that one day they hire the right scientist and they'd be able to catch up that grandiosity cap the lies would eventually become true and who cares because now it works maybe that works in software or Basheer's health is not only interesting story I'd highly encourage me read bad blood great book and highly encourage people to follow the story and just ask basic to diligence questions whenever anybody comes to you with a business idea or a project idea the story can never be too good to be true just to ask for basic things like I say I think does X your first question should be what test can i construct to independently verify that your thing does X if someone says they're cryptocurrency can do 500 thousand transactions per second the first thing you should ask for is what independent third party has verified that claim and they'll say oh I don't need to do the add blah blah blah okay well I'm sure you have a great system but it's not for me [Music] and I love this guy ada is quoting the price of ada tether a good FedEx are out of trouble and you think that somehow there's a moral failing with Ada and that's what the price is going down dude the market is not healthy right now it's not gonna be healthy for a little while maybe your piece of instruction is screwed up I could cure cancer right now we could announce the Shelly shipment tomorrow get announced the same as Shelly the fresh won't go up it's fish fanatics we're gonna live that cane you know it's it's just amazing people trade you know if you look at the history of cryptocurrencies like let's talk about money for a little bit I've been in cryptocurrency space since 2011 in my experience of knowledge looking at the trading data and talking people who do this for a living more often than not this industry experiences massive surges so if you look at 365 days of trading you're gonna have a lot of this so this or trends down for a bit and some of this for trends up for a bit and it goes down and then suddenly spikes right up three day period you double your price or something like that happens a lot and why it happens god only knows it's not correlated to progress or news like when Bitcoin shot up from $600 to $20,000 or let's say 10,000 to 20,000 i Romero's a consensus when I hit 10,000 there was a game event put on a 10k party for Bitcoin there is a while this is crazy in just a few months later went to 20k it took 8 years to get to 10k and only two months to get to 20k now what was the fundamentals but there's no fundamentals behind cuz these are not real markets use some common sense they're manipulated markets the liquidity is not real a lot of the trading is not real the prices go up and down they're unregulated or pseudo regulated exchanges there's lots of insider trading happening it's not real okay it's real when there's millions of people using it millions of people with natural demand behind it let's say I create a token and you can use that token to pay for your water and your electricity and let's say it's mandated that you have to use that token pay for your water electricity and there's millions of people doing that that's real demand so to give you lots of people buying the token not because they want it because they have to use it to do something with it and then they're good people on the other side because they know there's real demand a real economy forms and people say well I can pay for my my water in my power with this all except the token for products and services as a real circular economy do we have that with crypto currencies no we don't have that with crypto currencies so these prices don't exist it's casino land I'll get it through your heads it's not real [Music] it's just like everybody wants something for nothing everybody wants to get rich it's nothing new it's why people play the lottery you know I'm here to change the world and a lot of people who have bought a to a part of our ecosystem are here to change the world too and they care a lot about this and you know there's a some people have tackled themselves on thinking that somehow ADA is just gonna go to the moon if we go to the moon it's because we change something we made something fundamentally better you know if you look at Tesla whatever grievances people have about that company Tesla is forcing an industry-wide conversation about battery powered transportation that mass manufacturing of batteries the mass charging of batteries a parallel infrastructure to this phenomena the all companies have and they're forcing a global conversation about it fundamentally improving the technology of the cars it's just a miracle what they've done with self-driving vehicles and as a consequence my Cadillac now drives itself on the highway with supercruise that would never happened had Tesla non-existent so this value across the whole board I just bought a lawnmower from my ranch it's a Ryobi longboards battery-powered I could drive it for three hours cutting grass with with one charge that would have never occurred had Tesla not been with a one and brought these innovations to the industry that's real now you it's an aristocratic to everybody and real value being produced for the customers flows our industry has a moral duty to provide this to people and if we can't do it it's all a scam so all you care about is the price you have to take back and say who is buying this from you how will you be able to sell let's say your asset goes from $1 to $1,000,000 put the hell's on the other side of that deal buying your stuff up where do they get their money from where is the money coming from think it through think it through take a step back and think it through just the same questions for due diligence on that magic black box that can do all these things what tests would you invent to verify if that thing exists when you're thinking about a trade why is somebody buying this and I had this issue with steam iron when steam came out I wrote some steam article every article I was writing I was making $5,000 an article on average it blew my mind I was like why do Pete buying this token this makes no sense so I I asked net and the other guys behind Steam where does the demand come from they set speculations so I said let me get this straight inflation creates something to incentivize the creation of content and I get these tokens and I have no incentive to hold these tokens so the first thing I'm going to do is is just sell them and the counterparty buying them is only buying them because they think it might be worth more money that's not a sustainable system the values gonna leak out now if the tokens were connected something real like you have advertising and the only way you can advertise in the system is by buying the token that's at least a post economy because they oh okay I have these content providers that have millions of viewers and listeners and readers and the only way I'm gonna get my ads to them is the use of this token Google Facebook these companies are advertising Goliath and they make billions of billions of billions of dollars from that so it's perfectly plausible to say that somebody would be willing to spend $50,000 or $100,000 on tokens to get an ad and Joe Rogan's podcast for example so that's a closed circular economy then there's at least natural demand for the token so I have it there's a reason why somebody would want it for me and there's a market there and if it's worth X it's worth X okay but when a speculation you're basically saying useful idiot that's what you're saying that the person buying it from me is the greater gideon than me selling it is that how you want to make millions of dollars is that how you want to make your license and say that you do somebody else how are you any better than fit connect at that point think it through and yes I've met Elon Musk he used to come to my alma mater all the time I met his brother too Kimball runs a restaurant called the kitchen nice guy and I didn't say buy a Tesla I just that the Tesla baristas great things I could have bought it is why I chose to buy a Cadillac and the ct-6 is a phenomenal car absolutely amazing highly recommend the 2019 ct6 is the best sedan ever made makes mercedes-benz and BMW look like garbage hello Fort Collins remember the Rams always lose to the Buffaloes a little joke okay let's talk about toxic batteries you know batteries can be recycled and every technology is improving and there's a supply chain that you can create where eventually you can even have a closed system where when the batteries go bad they go to special facilities to get refurbished recycled and become new batteries and so the most part you don't need it my anymore like you know to get there and eventually we'll have graphene batteries or other things that are much more environmentally friendly than lithium ion battery whereas the fossil fuel industry when you extract oil I mean that's the extraction of a natural resource the only way to continue providing that power is to continue extracting so I don't think there's a moral equivalence between batteries and also cars the other thing is this is not a car problem there's a synergistic connection to cellphones there are billions of cell phones and tablets produce every year globally and every single one of them has a battery in it so there's a global collective Commons problem of dealing with that waste weather no Tesla's were made we still have billions of batteries sitting in our landfills we do nothing about it so there is a going to happen the next 10 20 years a closed system to get these batteries to be more ecologic friendly and recycled by the way everybody wants a cell phone that go that last 24 hours or 48 hours a week everybody wants their cell phone to charge in 15 minutes everybody wants their cell phone battery the last 10 years so that they don't have to deal with what they're dealing with today the very same research in going into that for hundreds of billions of dollars of consumer devices is synergistically available to test love for cars so if you're looking at the trends it's almost like vacuum tubes versus transistors where when the transistor first came out compared to the vacuum tube I was no comparison back into vastly superior technology more reliable and it could just do more but then people realize as a trend that the transistor is getting a whole lot and scale a whole lot faster the vacuum committe kind of peaked as the technology and this is where we're at with battery power cars my one more I bought doesn't have an engine doesn't need spark plugs doesn't need oil changes it's a much simpler system and it's a lot quieter and I get a better cutting experience today and I just get into the wall 120-volt outlet and charges overnight big mo again tomorrow so you know these things are these things look good well thank you Jeremy f you know General Motors makes great cars and I used to be a Ford man I wanted to buy a Lincoln they were just terrible for compared to the Cadillacs and how much car down have you sold for Fiat that's far none there's another thing this base doesn't understand hey everybody says all your Charles's lifestyles financed by a that no it's financed by Bitcoin guys I've been in space a long time so no ADA verifiable provably so we published the Google I which ka2 holdings you'll see a blog post you know aren't we publicly announced are dressed and go to a blockchain Explorer c08 has moved never sold any ADA so so you know why do people keep asking because people spread flies and rumors and they say oh well the only reason they're doing with their duties are selling their ADA okay what else we got here and natural gas is pretty cool you know you you can make all these things there's actually a company called carbon engineering that allows you to suck co2 out of the air and convert it into oil if you wanted to do it think about that you could literally put a device and suck co2 out and make oil from it are you willing to put in enough energy to do it don't have a fossil filled problem it's just a distribution problem battery power cars are basically like crypto currencies they put you in control you don't have to negotiate with an oil company you don't have to go to a gas station you don't have to rely on a supply chain if there's a hurricane or a flood or if there's a blizzard don't have to worry where am I gonna get my feel from if you have the ability generate your own electricity you then have the ability to operate your vehicles you're getting off the grid you're becoming independent it extends to me fuel cells make a lot of sense too but actually the oil company is really really really like fuel cells because it has the same supply chain dynamics as oil currently does let's say we go to a hydrogen economy we have this will sell assist in your car you need to pump hydrogen in the car where do you get it from the gas pump so you have the diesel pump the gasoline pump the hydrogen bomb we reside region cut fun they make it from my methane so basically just take the stuff they're already doing and they do it a little different really and they put it into trucks just like they put gasoline they put it the gas station just like the gasoline a same consumer experience that's why a lot of oil companies put a lot of money aardeen fuel sales are not a huge pack to pull away from these things and they were just waiting for people get tired oil flip a switch and suddenly were in the hydrogen economy and water is coming out of your tailpipe so everybody feels ecologically friendly but it's the oil company is still in control not you now you can make hydrogen at home but along that same token you can make biofuels at home right now and what gasoline hit $4 a gallon there is a lot of people making biofuels in their garages because they didn't want to pay it by the way t boone pickens was a big fan of having natural gas for sweet vehicles and a boy there are a lot of natural gas it's America is the largest producer in the world for that I love energy actually it's true I've never owned an ether my entire life have you ever had a wall with see if we have anything else here alright come on guys I want to end the ma with a good question give me some interesting yes I've been watching Westworld big fan of the show I even watched I even listened to the podcast from those guys what's the name the name will come to me in a minute but I I even listen to their podcast about it it was just a really great show I really enjoyed it six-foot wisecrack that was the name of the YouTube wisecrack series and yes Lars will be holding on like horses Game of Thrones pull oh no wait whole seasons done all right let's see come on guys give me something nice you know if people keep talking about Satoshi one of these days I think I'll just pull out my old number theory books and look up the NFS sift and pull out a lot of computing power and break Satoshi's PGP key and then sign something like Satoshi is dead so people leave it alone or maybe just release the private key associated with it so that that'll be end of it no one can verify yes doing keto and I yes I really do need to invest more time in my health you know when I first started my company I was 190 pounds I was in great shape now 235 pounds I was actually 245 I lost about 10 pounds I know all the things I need to do to keep healthy and stay in shape Vantage of being rich and having access to doctors and other things they can tell you unlimited advice but the problem is you always regress to the minimum amount because you're so busy and there's so many things to work with it in my schedule usually is about a hundred hours a week it's tough and the travel is really tough too that's why when people say I'm just having fun traveling out it always been so profoundly it is not fun you get stuck at airports you know you get a hotel like you flying to Singapore you your hotel at 7:00 a.m. they say sorry check-in times at 3:00 p.m. you just look at them like dude I spent 20 hours getting here you're gonna tell me I have to wait hours to check into my room I just want to sleep and they say so sorry it's a 4 what are you gonna do okay that's fun that's exciting that's a vacation come on guys not a Guinness man my favorite beer I very rarely drink beer but if I drink Sam Adams winter lager and what I'm in Greece it's Methos that beer is really good and there's something in Switzerland I drink at at the Ale House is that they have there always have to have some beers yeah I know David Schwartz he's a nice guy if it's a really good guy you know he's very pragmatic he's just just crazy enough to be entertaining but not quite crazy has to be having conversations with himself the best ramen in Tokyo is in Shibuya 50 different places they're all good and I am a scotch man that's true I actually drink whiskey Glenmorangie Signet and occasionally Macallan 21 although Hibiki and Yamazaki is really good whiskey especially the 30 year old Hibiki that they have in Japan there's some good stuff there okay all right we got about five minutes yeah what am I gonna do come on give me something good have you met Bill Gates oh that's a good way of ending it you know I was in Miami at the i/o which case smelling and we were in a meeting with one of our partners and I had my phone off because when I take meetings as people I I turned my phone off or I put it in my pocket put it on silent you know it's a sign of respect and it was like a two-hour meeting very long involved meeting we just finished it and I look at my phone I got like 60 messages on my damn phone I say what is going on here and I look at it our marketing director she she was next door and she said you have to come next to her this bar next door next the hotel you have to come you have to come so I ran into her later that day and I and I said what's going on why did she send me so many messages it just never believe who I just met I say who just me she said I saw Bill Gates and I was like no you saw Bill Gates we were staying at the Lowell Hotel in Miami Beach right next door Nova tell Bill Gates was there drinking with some friends and and she was just watching him for like ten minutes talking to this guy's clearly Bill Gates sounds like him looks like him talking about Warren Buffett doing his Bill Gates stuff and she goes up to him and talks to him for a few minutes and mentions our company and so forth it I was literally next door and she kept trying to get me to come over and talk to him I have a lot of friends who know him and we worked with people who have directly worked with him like khalid bomba and bruce fenton and we just just missed each other yeah I thought that would have been the coolest picture for Twitter it's just just a mess with people to say like what are they doing with Bill Gates but you know next time we'll see him although just what a coincidence to say you did this huge summit and Bill Gates happens to be in town anyway so never minimal but Bill Gates is actually very relevant to the type of stuff we do you know his organization gives away 18 million dollars a day private organization 18 million dollars a day and they've had profound impact throughout Africa many of the agencies we want to work with our control buyer influence by in some way the bill Melinda Gates Foundation and they're just doing great work so you know at some point will will rub shoulders with them and at some point we'll do something with them but that