Surprise AMA 03/31/2019

00:00 to 1:48:22

hello everyone this is Charles Hoskinson bribes casting live from warm sunny Colorado okay and there might be an issue with the stream okay there we go and people should trickle in now apologies guys with the stream I was trying out a new type of software and I couldn't get the software running in time I gave myself just about ten minutes to play around with xsplit and I could had a trouble with the key anyway I hope everybody can hear me hope everybody can see me and thank you all for waiting I have have family currently over and so I had entertained them for today but I didn't want to do an AMA when I got back to Colorado so thank you for waiting alright let's take a look here I hope you all have saved up some questions comments concerns other such things and let's see first question okay so while we wait for the questions to come trickling in and those who are on the live stream please do make sure to go ahead and submit the live stream link to the telegram channels and elsewhere so we can get as many people as possible into the live chat make it more of a dynamic nice ama things are going pretty good we're in the nuts and bolts and wheats of getting Cardenal and the final mile the Shelly work is coming along we we have a huge amount of work on the specifications a huge amount of work on the Haskell society a huge amount of work we're doing on the rough side of things we are now in a weekly date cycle for the wallet back end Matias Bank Court is doing very good work there Marcus has done some great work getting the rust node running on a rock by device I share whenever he sends me cool videos of various devices working I share that on Twitter basically you have these small devices are about this big they cost about $70 and you can connect to all kinds of things to them like external storage and backup battery we've even experiment it was getting into work with solar so when you go to the I which case summit you'll learn how to do this yourself but basically our hope is that these little rock pipe warts can end up becoming kind of the de-facto reference open source open hardware a stick pool for people they run on less than 10 watts of power they're pretty easy to configure and set up they're very reliable so I which Kate does have some ADA so we set up our stick pools we'll probably use for our company state pools these little devices as reference boards so look for that we're pretty excited about it test network working SuperDuper hard we really wanted to get it out today but we're still still doing some last-minute configurations but the shellye test net should come out fairly soon not like six months from now but like more more in the week to several week time horizon and basically that will be a great opportunity for us to roll over all the people we've accumulated the state pool task force channel into the shell a test net and begin the hard stress testing and hopefully be able to get people running state pools as quickly as possible we hope on open hardware but basically you can run them at any configuration whether it be pushing something to an Amazon server or running it on your own computer at home we were going to see how easy the setup happens to be so so good progress there and you know that last mile and software is always so difficult because a lot of things are always coming together and there's tons of little things that people never thought about that they always become last-minute issues punching software through that last percent is always a challenge but we're almost there we ran in the same issue with Leger you know we had most of it done in February and there were these tiny little things here and there that came up and we just kept pushing and pushing and pushing to get it through but we now have let your support thousands and thousands of happy people we got a lot of great messages most people can use them of course for software there's always some configuration somewhere that for some damn reason we can't get it through this whip USB standard or whatever it is some people can't use it we don't know why but for 99.9% of people most people can use their Ledger's or have a good time with it so we're pretty happy with that anyway overall things are looking great on the software side progress is pretty rapid and as we approach the summit I'm pretty proud of how hard the team has worked I and I'm glad that were you know within a good range for how we ship things and we're getting kind of weekly feedback and weekly releases for the wallet back-end for the rust client and soon-to-be the half Haskell's software as well so we're all moving in the right direction okay let's go ahead and answer your questions let's see what you guys have are all right well eight ASP or Colts taking the answer is yes we've talked to vacuum labs about Colts taking support for the alleged devices we're also in discussions with the vacuum labs guys and our own engineers about it making sure that we have multi six support so not only can you cold stake and so what that basically means is that you create a key that you then import so that's a sticking key into Daedalus or your ROI and then you can use that key to stake with that or delegate with that but then the spending keys remain on the cold wallet device so you never lose control over the spending of the of the key but you've now made a hotkey specifically for sneaking rights so that capability will exist and we're in discussions about how to add that support the ledger it probably will come out not soon but in the ledger nano X timeframe so that's the late May June timeframe just because there's a lot to do there but multi stick is also part of that conversation as well so the next major update will be saying how do we get a good multi-sig cold wallet experience so basically you have kind of like a copay like multi sick experience where you can build and read that and kind of construct that transaction like a copay pub/sub system where someone initiate the transaction amongst an Emma and keychain but instead of having the actual signature take place on the cellphone device the signature will take place on a ledger device and then the signature will be transmitted to the cellphone and then sent to a pubsub server which will then relay it to the other people on the keychain so we'd like to figure that out and we have some ideas of how we want to construct that quickly a lot of the infrastructure we need for that is already built it's just a matter of putting it together and then kind of the next step is saying let's also make sure we can do this with delegation as well it's very important for us it's important for mergo is important for the CF and it's important for you guys the community okay can't talk about coinbase listing that's something that's off limits crazy here on the side of your face yes I am getting older and I need a haircut I just got back from a 23 day world trip and boy it was fun I Charles with Steph's partnership has n cash / horizon PS they really shouldn't have changed her name you know actually I like to send cash a lot but you know horizon okay but everybody's always gonna misspell it I wasn't not involved in the name change I'm just there to answer questions we do consulting work and we're right now negotiating the next phase of consulting I've always liked Rob and the rest of the team I think that they're good actors small cryptocurrency but they're damn good actors if I have a Raspberry Pi node my internet sales will my stake be slash you know this is an example of where people take concepts from other proof of stakes and they import them automatically into our proof of stake there is no in the incentives design that we have for a Boris at the moment concept of slashing where we destroy your your stake you do not have to bond data for our protocol to work this is in our view an advantage of our protocol over last generation protocols bonding was kind of a clever mechanism to introduce some sort of cost to lying but if you use the epic design then you don't actually need to do this because you're delaying payment and some sort of closure several days later so so anyway there is a isn't the concept that somehow if you don't perform optimally your money gets destroyed or you lose a bond or something like that now your payments will go down if you don't do your job well at all you get no payment so obviously people won't want to state to you but we don't have the concept of slashing in our system [Music] okay and by the way we have answered a very big collection of questions from the stick pool task force and we're now in the process of taking that collection of answers and putting them into a more accessible public format so I just talked to Jeremy Roni today he's I which case director of operations and chair is right now exploring with a few different people in our marketing department about the best way of taking that question-answer list and converting that question-answer list into basically accessible content about how delegation and staking and incentives and rewards what all these things are going to look like so look for that we have the answers it's just getting them into a website the N which case summit has really sucked a lot of the air out of our marketing capacity most of our people are focused on that and getting through the summit so that's almost done but it's slowed down some of our ability to release other marketing assets for example the stateful task force website [Music] let's see what else we got here well we have a debt platform at the end of 2019 I don't see any major delays that would prevent us from having smart contracts support by the end of 2019 and certainly before the end of 2019 Goggan is a parallel project to Shelley so they have separate teams and they've been working now for about two and a half years on designing the languages Plutus and Marlowe and basically building up infrastructure for them now there are lots of things we can do to improve flutists we've already learned a lot of useful usability lessons for the Plutus playground and for meadow that were a direct consequence of the course we taught in Ethiopia because the girls but the last month basically being Politis developers so we'll keep doing that and we've already incorporated some of those improvements for the hackathon we're going to do in April for the average-case summit so that'll come now there is a broader discussion of what is an app platform and what does an app platform mean for a cryptocurrency now my goal and this has been something that I've been wanting to do since 2014 is this concept of adapter so basically the idea is you have something that's kind of like the Chrome Web Store or the Google Play Store where you can search for an experience and that can be a game that can be a gambling application that can be a wallet comes up there's ratings there's an author there's metadata and there's a button to install you click it you know something happens you install it that it goes into your App Catalog and basically that state can be updated by the author of the system now the hope is that the backend for that is that some of the logic will be running in decentralized infrastructure and then also that the centralized infrastructure will handle tasks like author management registration reputation management and triggers for and you found a tional technology like graph QL and for about roughly a year our companies explored this with Darko nation as the product manager and there's Ries and a few other people and we'll probably do some sort of workshop at the summit explaining what we've learned and what we're considering some people are moving away from electron for example you may have read recently that the mists project has been retired and that was built on top of electron that I believe the brief browser was in some way built on top of electron and now they've moved to a pure chromium fork and then there is a lot of discussion about potentially using Waze and plus huazi as a as an alternative we also explore docker and we explored some other containerization technology the problem with containerization is it's simply too heavy for a lot of these types of experiences so we were still studying that but I think it's that's the consumer moment getting to that easy search easy curation easy installation which seamlessly blends the client the server and the blockchain infrastructure together and has a good author management a good distribution story and in some way does not require a full curation that's what we call the the def browser and no one in the industry has really figured out an optimal way to do that but there are a lot of foundational technology that potentially can let us go get in that direction there are some challenges like for example across application communication so ideally like a situation where every piece of cryptocurrency infrastructure or blocked in infrastructure lips within the sandbox so you would no longer have a separate wallet and then that somehow communicates with this DAF browser you'd like them to be one in the same so you download in some part of the future basically an empty socket you know an empty framework and then you search and you decide what types of apps you want so you would enter something like card on a wallet or Bitcoin wallet and there'd be vendors who have deployed there with various trusted and then you click on it yes I want the aisle educate her on wallet you download that and then once you have it you can store ADA and then you have other apps with dependencies so for example you download the Charles house Constance wild poker app or something like that well that needs a permission to access the cardinal wallet so when you make eight of bets you can drag money out and put it into whatever escrow mechanism that particular software happens to have well the minute that you introduce two applications that live in the same system where the apps can communicate with each other through some sort of bridge and there's permissioning ie the you know app can take money from one or do something with the other then you have a whole litany of attacks escalation of privileges and other things that can occur and so we from an infrared information theoretic standpoint info security standpoint have been thinking about well can we build some sort of permissioning system that makes sense and it's fairly tunable and also it's not gamma Buhl's so that you know users don't accidentally hand away the keys of the kingdom and this is the intrinsic challenge behind these types of the systems so the problem is that the more you do to enhance the consumer experience meaning the more seamless you make things the less menus people have the less configuration people have the less prompting you give the user the more likely it will be that people will basically inadvertently say yes to something that could steal their money or download an untrusted application that can cause quite some problems and so this is an openly usability issue that everybody has to contend with to give you an idea of how bad these problems can be just in our own ecosystem when ledger support was announced there were people who are shipping fake software to Ledger's to actually steal people's keys and there every time we do an update for Cardinal hackers wait for the announcement and as soon as they do they should fake binaries for devilís that again will steal people's money so they're sure a lot of great hackers out there who are terrible human being but they invest enormous amounts of money into trying to scam innocent people with to stealing their money so when you create an app platform you know the smart contract side of it can be trust less and and with the best of intentions but then when you put all these things together and you have the ability for cross application communication you you could emergently create security issues for people that are in some cases difficult attack no amount of formal methods or computer science magic will kind of protect you because at the end of the day you may be as the user authorizing the system to do something against your best interests it's a great conversation to have you build things in layers decentralisation smart contracts are kind of the foundational layers of the system and then getting good developer experience as the next and then having a good platform to deploy these things on it's the next after that we have kind of a collection of teams that work on all these different things and we're trying to work as much as we can parallel and we do have some good ideas about what an app platform would look like and currently our best guess is to do this with electron [Music] now let's see what else we got can we expect legend with deathless integration the answer is yes we are planning on doing that it was less of an up priority because at the end of the day regardless if you access your alleged device with a cell phone application a chrome application or a heavy desktop application basically the key management is always done on the legend device itself so at the end of day that's just a pretty front end it's a window into your device at a command center that allows you to work with your device but it does not control the keys themselves so there really isn't a security difference accessing your ledger from Daedalus then there is accessing your ledger from your ROI because the way you ROI was constructed and it was on a much better codebase due to being inherited from Icarus on the rust codebase it was considerably simpler for vacuum labs and mergo to build that support into euro we're in the process of completely changing all the code behind Daedalus and that's almost done there are two teams working a Rusty Moore the Haskell team and we're just paying that price of rewriting once that's done it'll be very straightforward for us to add things like ledger support multis sake it just simply makes no sense to build that support on top of the old code base as frustrating is that it can be the point of deploying Icarus when your ROI was to basically give people a thread that we can add features rapidly to so you could get ledger and multi-sig in these types of things and it didn't slow us down while we're in the process of rewriting everything for Shelley and for Cogan so once that rewrites done let your will happen and actually other initiatives will happen as well for example we're going to start implementing the proof of stake side chains work and move Daedalus into a light client by default and it'll upgrade into a full node in the background so basically what will happen is we have a basically a cryptographic structure which will ship with the wallet which basically means that when you boot up the wallet for the first time the only thing it's going to do to start is grab the existing UT Excel will put something in the protocol to we ship this to the client it'll be able to check that very rapidly and then use that cryptographic structure the validate that you TXO is correct at that point you'll be able to very easily and straightforward use your wallet spend money from it restore a wallet into it with no problem and then it'll gradually download the blocks before so you won't have to have this waiting for the entire block chain to sync or other things like that so that's it that's a big priority of mine for a usability viewpoint I would like for Daedalus to be significantly lighter there's also some discussions about how can we make electron lighter for the for the user because it's a very heavy framework and for some people it just seemed to be a bit much we've made huge wins in 2018 for example we went from memory utilization of about 2 gigabytes to about 500 megabytes and then also we considerably reduced the amount of storage requirements for downloading the Cardinal blotching by a factor of about 5 or 6 but we can do better and improvements the wallet backend improvements the core code proven it's the data based technology that we use and also just improvements to electron itself can probably push us in in the right direction and then having a light client mode by default I think will dramatically help usability for the court notes of the system [Music] can you speed up research with more recruit people in this project Charles you know this is a question that comes often like how why can't you go faster can you hire more people there's a Michigan the conception of software engineering and research that somehow you get linear scaling so you know if you have 10 engineers and you go to 20 engineers you're twice as fast the reality is that software kind of has a critical mass for any one part you're working on in the architecture the code base you have and the collection of things that you want to do that if you go beyond that critical mass of engineers for the methodology or following and for the code base you're worried of the project you actually have people tripping up on each other IBM was one of the first companies notice this and I think they have wrote a paper about it 1970s or 80s and I forget the term of it so we're at maximum capacity for engineers occurred on we have a lot of great people that are working very hard and right now the only efficiency gains we can get our gains of when we actually have proper things like better processes so Bruno Palio's our director of engineering and he wakes up every day and he's trying to systematically install better processes throughout our organization that was one area we were weak in 2017 and throughout 2018 we just simply had the wrong philosophy for how to build software it was in a too much of a waterfall esque way for my comfort so the good news is that we've already transformed several teams the RUS team and the haskell wallet back-end team are both operating I'd say a near peak efficiency or as close to as good as we can get I and I like the models that they're using and we're seeing week by week a transformation of the legacy Haskell groups where they're starting to gain better acceleration and they're starting to work pretty well the formal methods team also needs a little bit of acceleration due to the nature of the work that they're doing it's a little difficult to accelerate things and also on the research side researchers researchers this is why you start foundational research as far back as you can and it's important remember that we've been doing research since 2015 so on all the core technologies that we intend on shipping at 2019 the research has either concluded or it's reaching the refinement and proof cleaning stage meaning that the core protocols have not changed so those have been available for a while people can play with them looking on to the road map to the future we have a little bit more to do on the single threaded or aside so there's an upcoming paper called Wars Kronos and that paper solves some issues with the clock in a little of the major advancement a proof of stake it's currently under submission I think the crypto and look for that paper soon and then the very next paper will be something involving spikes of dishonest majority at that point outside of quantum resistance checkpointing quantum computer check pointing you know there's really not much more to do that will add substantial value to the or horse research stream and we'll be in a position where you know we could basically say this is it you know it's complete and we'd be 30 to 40 times faster than Bitcoin and in terms of throughput and then you know order of magnitude better in terms of latency if not and we probably improve that more and we would be a hundred times more decentralize so that's a pretty good win but we didn't want to do sharding and we have ideas on how to do that and that's really taking the parallel chains research stream and taking the side chains research stream and combining them with what we've done with Ouroboros and those three things together become war pours Hydra so once we finish off with Kronos and we finish off with all the refreshes of the orb bores paper family that we have with make considerable improvements to the proofs we've simplified some of them extended other ones resolve some theoretical issues here and there that came up during the peer review process or from our own analysis things are just more readable and there's a lot more clarity that we have then then the research team will immediately begin working the final steps of the sharding park but then there's a lot of open questions about things like the incentives side of the protocol the delegation side of the protocol the stateful design of the protocol and there are a lot of interesting research questions that we can pursue there and will pursue there we're pretty happy with what we've done out of Oxford and we're pretty happy with what we've done with the specifications on how delegation incentives work but there's always room for improvements so there's going to be some scientists to play in that area and work in that particular area but you know all things considered we've gone from aspirational from scalability and interoperability sustainability is the three pillars of thing that we'd like to play with to a massive tsunami wave of papers and designs and the end result the output of these processes are are basically us converging to a really good concept of what the permanent system needs to look like that will leave great stubs for future researchers and future engineers to improve it so you know all things considered with the resources we had the engineering time the science time we put in we're pretty happy with the outcome of that adding more researchers and scientists would be frankly counterproductive with a few exceptions we probably could use some more people on the pl side just to build up the ecosystem around it for example we are scaling the team that's working on compiling haskell to javascript and compiling haskell to web assembly and that team will be finished in terms of its scale by end of april mid-may we're just onboarding people right now and they'll reach peak capacity in terms of you know their output sometime during the summer and so then this will make it considerably easier to deploy fleetest contracts and a node setting or in the browser or these types of things so you know there's some stuff to do there there's also some stuff to do on libraries and SDK is immuno things like that but those things come organically as a back and forth between developers and the maintainer z' of the but core people we certainly have enough and we certainly learned a lot let's see what we got here why is your live cam quality support looks like you're being filmed underwater I'm on a 4G connection I live in a town this is this is the great tantalizing irony of my life I think it is a great analogy for it I live in Longmont Colorado just outside of Boulder in Longmont actually has a municipal ISP that has one gigabit up and down fiber optic internet connectivity for $60 a month I live just a few miles outside of the five burgers own and not only did they not service my area Comcast and Centrelink do not for high-speed Internet so my only option is to go with satellite or 4G connection both are about the same speed of about 30 to 40 mb/s down rate with about 10 up and one is an order of magnitude higher latency than the other so I'm on a 4G connection so and when my co-founder Jeremy what he lives just in town and he's on a one gigabit per second connection and so he often reminds me how wonderful his 4k web cam and his video conferencing happens to be and I have to make do with with my connection so I hope when 5g rolls out I get better options but at the moment this is as good as it gets for where I'm at but I have a much better view can you elaborate on the work that karna is doing in Ethiopia so Ethiopia is is basically one of our flagship and beautiful places that we we work in so you have 106 million people seventy percent are under the age or at the age of thirty and it's a country that's going through enormous economic growth and at the same time it really does need to change the way it's doing things eighty-five percent of the country is agricultural most of the food is grown or so we connected to about fifteen million smallholder farmers they have a big problem with diaspora on the perimeters of the country they're landlocked and they consist consistently have border issues with some of their neighbors the countries had historical issues with establishing free and fair markets there are a lot of monopolies who have to be complete and solid broken up and there's a lot of people that do like taking advantage of some of the poorest people in the world and they need to go away or be disintermediated so the Prime Minister and ministries there are quite forward-thinking and there are some that are better than others in particular we really like the Ministry of innovation technology we've worked very closely with them we also like the cultural transformation agency led by mr. Khalid bomba I used to work for Bill Gates it's actually one of the first ministries I think of that is funded by private interests but yet it's still a government ministry and they've done some great work taking about 3.2 million of the 15 million smallholder farmers and putting them into collective bargaining units called ACC's agricultural commercialization clusters so basically they can unify the farmers on standards from what fertilisers they use to what types of commodities they grow there's about ten commodity areas that the ACCC focuses on and then they can use these standards and they can use these better practices and better data collection to increase output get better prices for the food and ensure that farmers by collectively bargaining they they have a bit more economic voice of power than a normal smallholder farmer would because you know when you're only on an acre of land and you don't have a lot of output you kind of just have to be at the mercy of whatever the market happens to give you so no talking to the ATA you know they have basic problems they'd love to solve for example they say hey we got our fertilizer in Jim booty and they come in as 50-pound bags and by the time they get to Addis Ababa still a lighter you know they're like 45 pounds or 44 pounds so you know somewhere along the way some fertilizer is being taken or they come back to the same weight but when you open it up it's adulterated so maybe it's 35 pounds of fertilizer and it's 15 pounds of dirt or sand or something like that somebody basically swapped it or the bags just magically grow legs and they they kind of walk away so when you have situations like that you know the conversations usually still around can we build a blockchain solution for that supply chain so when the bags get checked in at Djiboutian and they work their way to Addis or wherever they end up being shipped to all along the way you can kind of discover who's touched it who's done things with it where houses are storing it and basically where it's getting adulterated or stolen or you know slippage is occurring so projects like that and we're working real hard to try to create pilots along those lines because those pilots not only deploy blockchain solutions on an enterprise side to the country of Ethiopia but they also work at creating digital identities for people digital wallets for people and this is fundamentally going to be compatible with Cardinal so once you have these digital identities and you have you know really cheap cards that have trusted Hardware modules in them like at an gem style card you can then start talking around that infrastructure and saying well we also can now go ahead and give people loans and by the way the ACC has extensive records that are cross-referenced with different data sets on those 3.2 million farmers and at some point they can consolidate them and use it as an identity Colonel that's reliable and in the existence of things like the ACC allow you to do voucher programs and lending programs in fact they did an experiment 2014 with a voucher program or they gave out loans as vouchers and they had a hundred percent repayment rate for the thirty five thousand farmers that they gave vouchers to one hundred percent every single farmer repaid at the end of the day because the way they structured things so there's there's really a tremendous amount of innovation there and if you get in early you can get blotching solutions to solve very simple and easy to understand problems that do require a lot of social dynamics to get solve and in the process you've now created a huge space of reliable people for lending insurance stable coin proliferation and so forth so throughout all of Africa we are exploring stable coins we are exploring alternative market places for security tokens we are exploring kind of out-of-the-box ways to market and explain crypto currencies the masses including potentially tokenizing sports teams will make some sort of announcement about that in Jinja it's an Uganda and we are exploring things like supply chains and property business registration now we always view Enterprise blockchain is the gateway drug to get people into the decentralized world and of course our preference will be to connect people to Cardno we will not actively build bridges to other systems because Cardno is awesome about other systems okay we'll 5g cause Mastiff population via DNA corruption yeah that's way outside of my ballpark I've seen the videos you've probably seen super smart on YouTube that some people do have concerns about 5g and if it has health consequences some actually come from credible universities and researchers and it is an interesting question does the existence of this technology given the shortwave and high energy caused some sort of health consequence and the answer is I don't know it's not my domain of expertise but it does give me a little bit of concern I noticed my brother who's a doctor tends to use a Bluetooth headset and doesn't like talking on the phone straight to his head he's convinced that you know cellphones may not be the best thing in the world for health but you know the proof is kind of in the pudding there where if we see a huge uptick in brain cancer or skin cancers or things like that you know that I guess 5g is probably somewhere to blame all right Dante says Charles Matthias said something about to be paid from recipient any update about that this concept of contingent settlement and we are exploring contingent settlement so basically the idea is that you have Alice and Bob and under a push transaction system Bob pushes a transaction to a known address of Alice now Alice can be a pseudonym or anonymous it can just be numbers you know that but it's some sort of payment address so Bob just pushes it in now here's the thing Alice did not consent to that that was just received the payment for the more Bob had to pay the transaction fee to push the value to Alice so when you take a step back and you deconstruct this you know you'd really rather have the ability to do transactions where you have some sort of interaction between Alice and Bob and process so for example at the base level you'd like perhaps to capture the commercial intent between Alice and Bob so Bob isn't just pushing money to Alice for just the sake of sending money some people do that we see that with dust transactions with Bitcoin for example but for the most part bob is buying something or bob has some commercial expectation or bob is making a donation but in all these cases there is an understanding between Bob and Alice that relates to the transaction at the moment that's met - that's abstracted from the system so the base layer doesn't record that so while the player saying and event happened because the nature of the event terms of the amount of value and the actors involved it's going to timestamp it and that records immutable the contract the social dynamics of that event are not captured in the system which means they're subject to debate so give me an example of this let's say that Bob goes to an ATM and withdraws $300 of value out of an ATM now that's a transaction now let's say Bob did that next in an Italian restaurant on on you know his birthday and all of his friends happen to be there you would say oh it looks like Bob's pulling money out to pay the check or you know some way is connected to this event he's a celebration there's people there it's expensive and let's say it's at 12 o'clock it's lunchtime yeah Bob can then go move 30 to 300 dollars from an ATM so the same type of transaction but now I've changed the metadata let's say it's a 2:00 a.m. right next to a known brothel so basically the exact same type of transaction the same type of value the same actor involved this is an account and the money but because you've changed the metadata it has vastly different implications so what if you could swap these metadata and then suddenly you can now make the Italian restaurant look like the brothel whoever controls that story has a lot of power so can and settlement can basically be about saying something as simple as we embed within the transaction some of the representation of the story of the transaction and potentially do contingent settlement where we have consent from both parties involved okay so that doesn't have to be public that can be private it can be as simple as taking the contract of the transaction hashing that signing it and then requiring the other party to sign that hash as well before that settles so imagine the case of a donation deed so I'm going to give $10,000 to Bob's foundation and I expect Bob to do XY and Z with the money maybe it's a church raising money and they say we will only spend this money on hurricane relief for Refugees and Haiti so they sign that I sign that there's now a legal record it's time-stamped it's immutable it's auditable but it's private because the only two parties that actually know what that transaction was about are the people who have the preimage of the hash the underlying contract but there's cryptographic non reputable evidence on both sides that Alice and Bob agreed to that particular type of transaction and that story behind that transaction now taking it up a notch when you'd have smart contract capabilities you can go beyond just embedding a hash and having this transaction only settlement Alice and Bob agree to also saying that Alice will agree to pay the transaction fee for Bob so basically Alice will issue a transaction to feed into the transaction Bob is going to initiate to basically pay that fee so you can then replicate the credit card style process where the merchant pays the processing fee instead of the consumer this is captured in a continued settlement system assuming you have interactivity between these two actors and stateful eventful contract smart contracts actually allow you to do this we can capture that behavior you also can think about things like delayed settlement where basically you can have an escrow party that can intervene for some period of time you get a charge your money goes to a contract but it doesn't clear for some period of time let's say a week or two weeks or three weeks so you have a little bit of time to put up a flag and say I've been defrauded or I don't actually want to do this anymore I want a refund or something like that and the third party can step in and reverse the transaction all of these types of things can be embedded and basically connected into the transaction structure in Plutus will enable enabled you to do this this is one of the reasons we designed flutist the way that we designed it so I think it's very important to talk about embedding metadata it's very important to talk about contingent settlement and it's important to kind of just talk around the parties who are getting into a financial transaction with each other and then you know it's later versions of Dedalus the card on a wallet system we're going to build in the capabilities of doing these types of transactions so basically at some point we'll have a friend system where Alice and Bob have pups up they can get to know each other and create an out-of-band way to transmit data to each other and create a basically a web of trust so Alice once you've accepted who she is and she's accepted who you are so you've decided to do that out-of-band then you can say okay I'm gonna send her copy the contract and she's gonna send me a copy of the contract and now we have a script that runs where the money only gets transferred if both parties consent and then boom it it moves and then you have legal record that you can then take that's admissible that you can use a lawsuit or you know some external system to get recourse and that that exists so we'll build these types of capabilities in at some point they're not super hard to build especially after we have the right foundation rust will event the Cardinal rust client will eventually grow in this direction with the scriptlet design that we have flutist was built for these types of things and Daedalus as an infrastructure you know that the electrum infrastructure is very malleable so it's easy for us to move in this direction it's just we have to rewrite into our core of a system to build on top of that and then once it's rewritten we can rapidly build on top of it we can get these really nice to have features like pub/sub and CSV export having a wall at export format things like that and then you have a really nice cool discussion about embeddable metadata into into transactions okay how do you like your steak cooked medium to medium rare he never really can go wrong with medium because if the overcook it you get it medium well and still pretty good the ender cookie you get a medium rare and that's not too bad and I love having salt on it good Steakhouse is always gonna give you salt with the steak do you see yourself working out cut off for the rest of your life Charles or do you want to move to other things one day that's a good question the world is too interesting complicated just do one thing even Bill Gates left and he went to other things I would like to leave Steve Jobs would one day retired from Apple and probably made like flutes or something you know in hand-carved wood one of my biggest regrets and my academic career was that I didn't invest more time into the arts I spent a great deal of time in stem initially I wanted to be a doctor so I did a lot of things in the biology side of the stem world but I didn't really focus too much on drawing and painting and I collect art now and you know I love music and I love this area of the world so I've always been a spectator but never a participant and that's a great chain you know the late great Richard Fineman also later in life developed a profound appreciation for the Arts and he was known for entering into reciprocity agreements with various artists where he teaches them something about physics and then they would teach him something about art and so there was numerous people who taught him how to draw and tell him how to paint and as he got older he actually started doodling really beautiful drawings and so I think it is important to do these things and so later in life I'd like to explore that Rudy Rucker certainly done it others have done it and I think it's much to their benefit and life is simply too short to just do one of the things the point of the work I do is to build systems and then give those systems to people and once they understand how those systems work they maintain operate and innovate those systems themselves so if we get it right I basically become obsolete and better people come in who are much more competitive much brighter much more capable and those people can take the system to the next level and I'd like to believe that if we built by which cake correctly at some point the company will become a dhow it will not need a CEO card ATO will not leave any notion of leadership it'll be completely bottom-up and at that point it would be counterproductive for me to be around now I can still work on the product but I just be one of many people working on it and frankly I'm getting old and fat hair is getting Wiley so so I think there's better things in life to do and I can move more into the arts and enjoy that and there are some things in the sciences I'd like to do big fan of reverse mathematics I'm a big fan of hobo toby type theory i'm a big fan of building open source computer algebra systems and talking about the formalization of mathematics using using things like lean and Agda and so I think there's an enormous amount of interesting things that can be done there I'm also keen to find better ways unify different fields of mathematics and translate concepts and one to another many of the great mathematicians of the 20th and 19th century focused on that and whatever they made a connection point like at Iowa the index theorem or something it was always something pretty special so I think I have enough brain cells left that if I retire soon enough I might actually be able to do something there but unfortunately mathematics is always a game for the young and as you get older you start realizing that you you aren't quite in that category anymore why don't you go on the Jill Rogen show like Andreas Antonopoulos did I would love to go on the Joe Rogan show but for you guys we need to get our biggest bang for the buck so let's get Shelly out let's get go get out and I'm going to talk about how we're doing amazing things in Africa and I can talk about all the things to platform can do so instead of saying aspirational things are coming soon I can say it is shift it is there and I give him cool demos and show cool things we're almost at that critical mass but he has a huge audience and there's a bit of strategy there and it took quite a bit of time to get andreas onto Joe Rogan years we'll have that moment and it's gonna be a really good moment really cool little my have you been bitten by a mosquito before I grew up in Hawaii yes Ben didn't buy many mosquitoes many many many can you tell me more about how they are running a know not only ten and what as a power so I said what let's start on trusting proof of work and proof of stake so in the proof of work systems you invest most of your effort and to figure out who's going to be in charge so that's a that's a contest it's like everybody's using these devices to buy a certain amount of lottery tickets your hash rate or how many tickets you get and eventually you hit one of those lucky tickets you when you say I got a golden ticket and it gives you the right to build a block and then you go and build that block and then almost immediately the contest starts all over again two to go and you know fine who has the next golden ticket so I'm just like Willy Wonka right you know everybody's buying chocolate bars and they finally find the right chocolate bar then that's great they found it let's go find the next chocolate bar with the golden ticket and what does that mean well it means number one you're gonna have consolidation towards whoever has access to the chocolate in this case the mining hardware and the and the subsidized power so you tend towards the central you tend towards centralization in that system and this exogenous control mean it's outside of the system in proof of stake they say we're gonna focus all of our effort on basically what the person does when they create the block because at the end of the day you you know selecting a winner it's it's like it's an odd priority thing it's it's it's built with into the system it's endogenous control and not a lot of energy or effort is expended on trying to decide that you know you basically run some protocol you left a bunch of people and you say alright this group of people you're in charge and then you're talking around how do we make what they construct as fast as possible as efficient as possible and also make it as useful as possible to the system so you're just thinking about basically different things now you even the same ends you're finding people to advance the state of the system so when you issue a transaction it's almost like a finite state machine you have basically a ledger that's in state alpha and you have a bunch of transitions transactions to go to state data so you're going from one state the next day so you're finding somebody to pull all those changes together and execute those changes but basically proof-of-work really thinks a lot about how do we find that person and make that as as difficult and expensive as a process as possible and invent that that that search into the protocol itself to kind of give the protocol some weight and credibility and proof of stakes says we have some way of finding that person if you agree that that's a good idea now let's just only talk about that state transition and how do we make that as good as possible so the advantage of proof of State then is that you really could put a lot of move into basically making that transition faster making it better for the consumer and you know do a lot of work yet you know basically having kind of a reputation of how well you did that you know see there's going to be actors who kind of stick around in the proof of state system in a very explicit way which you're only sticking around in a very implicit way and proof of work so you have pools and full systems and a proof-of-work system you have a mining pool it could be a private pool or a public pool but whether they do a good job or not whether they're including lots of transactions or not you can't fire them usually because they usually control the hash power themselves or do it via a consortium so reputation is almost non-existent in modern mining dynamics this was less true when we had GPUs and CPUs mining and people would give their hash burger to a pool then you had slush competing against another mining pool another mining pool up looking at our favorites and I had my favorite and everybody else had it but now if they own the hardware you know you just live by whatever tyranny they give you the proof of stake system is all social dynamics so we can start talking around basically what services is this pool providing are they doing a good job can they demonstrate that they've made all the blocks they were supposed to make are they also running full nodes and relaying data in the system are they providing value-added layer to solutions like lighting channels or Oracle services and are they getting increasingly more sophisticated hardware plus they tend to stick around for a while so you can start optimizing among that heterogeneity in the system but you still get basically the same utility and arguably depending upon the view you look at great degree of decentralisation in the system because you can always increase the amount of pools and the way we design things it's quite easy to do that with just ajust two parameters in the incentives model of the system so 10 watts of power is basically saying the software you need to run to advance the state of the system is basically light enough that it can work on low-power open hardware that uses the same type of processor your cell phone happens to use I use as an ARM processor which has to consume very little amounts of power because you know you don't have a big battery in your cell phone and if it consumes a lot of power your cell phone will only last a little bit of time so in many ways the kinds of things to make your cell phone faster more energy efficient also can now make Cardno faster and more energy efficient and ultimately means that we're getting to more and more performance and more and more efficiency as we go on whereas mining has the opposite dynamics when you increase the value of the underlying asset you increase the power consumption and whatever hardware performance gains in terms of getting more hashes out of the same lot of power are basically factored in you don't actually get a more efficient system you just simply get more miners so if I'm twice as powerful I'll just buy twice as many miners that I'll be competitive in that range so you never actually save in electricity there's always an incentive for more beautiful work adherents consider that a feature of the system is a proof of state proponents consider that to be a fatal a fatal bug of the system [Music] looks like you like Justin in your last meet are there any plans to do a partnership with him you know Justin son is an interesting guy he is I think a product of China's business environment you know China has had this way of going about business where they take things that exist in the Western world they copy them and market the hell out of them whether they actually have a good simulacrum or not a good product or not a good clone or not and they just pretend like they're the biggest guys in the world they get a lot of users they get a lot of hype the money comes and then when they have the money they they buy their way into legitimacy through strategic acquisitions so you know we want to build X and X can be jet turbines it can be batteries in cars and we're just going to say that we're doing that we're doing it better than everybody else and oh look a billion dollars showed up and hey well since we have a billion dollars let's go buy a Rolls Royce for 250 million there there jet engine plant or something or let's go buy a BitTorrent or let's go buy this and now we have engineers and real people and look those real people are doing real innovation and you wake up and if this process is successful you basically ended up constructing the company that will inevitably actually build the product which inevitably could be competitive you know Justin did not invent that this is something that everybody in China is done from Huawei to buy to Alibaba every company in that jurisdiction that just took the Western model they pretended like they some way innovated it and then they got enough momentum and money to actually get the people they needed to actually build the underlying infrastructure to a point where they one day could actually be competitive and potentially even innovate so the game for him is to stay alive long enough and get enough engineers and enough scientists that they inevitably could deliver something to market which could actually be real and then they get to say I told you so haha we knew it all along it was part of the master plan so Justin's job is to be the marketer in chief around the world and basically tell everybody how amazing Tron is and what Tron will do and you know they just went ahead and forked aetherium Java and put deep pots on top of it and and then they just make some strategic acquisitions here and there and they're kind of stumbling their way into potentially an architecture that may be viable you can either you know take that as well that's a little dishonest or you can just accept that that's how China does business and then you also can realize that within that structure there is tremendous opportunity for partnership a tremendous opportunity for joint ventures and potentially mutually beneficial relationships that both parties can benefit from tremendously but you also do have to understand that should the process fail meaning they ran out of money or support you're basically talking about a hollow enterprise and the entire structure can collapse down on itself it's almost like building the skin of a building and hoping to god the building doesn't collapse while you build the substructure within sometimes that works and you get away with it nobody's the wiser but sometimes the building collapses and kills all the workers inside so that's you know that's my that's my my take on the whole thing that said Justin was very kind to me he's very nice guy and you know I I have no grievance or issues with him I and in person I think he's a nice person you know I I can't comment on business ethics I can't comment on how he's run Tron or you know where money for Tron came from or how we set up that project gets a black box to me and it's nothing I couldn't care less about to be honest with you and I know a lot of people seem to care a lot about it we never get press at coin desk but coin desk writes articles about trongs Tesla giveaways so it just kind of shows you how these things work that said you know we we just do fundamentally different things I focused my life's work and certainly my work at Iowa K on innovation we're writing papers were were writing code we're building protocols it's a slow methodical and meticulous extra that occasionally has great outputs like yet Icarus and mantis and wallet back-end and cumulative Lee over time we build ourselves something quite special that's quite useful and beneficial for the entire ecosystem I don't spend a lot of time figuring on how to market and you know I think that there are others who do that better than me and frankly this is not about marketing as a movement this is ultimately about you if we do this correctly you guys are going to end up being the marketers that carry it to the world because this is about your identity this is about your reputation this is about your money this is about your property this is about your right to vote this is about your financial autonomy I think it's much more meaningful instead of talking about how much money people are going to make or how we're going to conquer the world or get mass adoption to talk about the underlying philosophy and inspire people with the underlying philosophy we did this in the Ron Paul movement and we started 5,000 people when I joined and when I left we had two million people all who cared about sound money and humble foreign policy and cared about following the Constitution in a simple case there are simple principles here this is the concept of disintermediating the middlemen of necessity this is a movement about personal control over your own money and this is a movement about money wanting to be free value wanting to be free and you being in control of that if we do this job correctly then then at the end of the day we're going to end up having millions of people running around telling everybody their parents their friends their neighbors that this movement matters so in many ways I think that's the better way to market than to try to create some sort of central bureau that always is desperate for attention and hype because at the end of the day you know you live and die by your ability to do that if you're really good at it you maybe make some progress but the real competition has yet to come there will be a day when there's a crypto currency wallet in Microsoft Windows there will be a day when there's a the currency wallet built into messenger and within three to five years every cell phone will have on and off ramps for cryptocurrencies now I don't get to control who what gets on those devices Samsung LG II Huawei Apple Microsoft and Google get to control what's on those devices and do you honestly believe for a moment if they could profit from it they would put my product in over something that they've built themselves which they make far more money from or perhaps those more regulatory compliant the only way we can overcome people that have already built the network effect of billions is not to be good at broadcasting giveaways and getting lots of users the only way we do that is understanding the underlying philosophy of the entire movement and people being immunized against centralized solutions that are that are pretending to be either and decentralized clothing you know we have to teach people how to spot wolves dressed as sheep or else we've accomplished nothing and that's my life's work that's what we do and if we don't accomplish that then I honestly think within a few years we'll just be consumed by the incumbents because they already have the network advantage they control billions of devices they control what people see and of course the media will be on their side governments will be on their side so they have an unfair advantage there but you can disagree of course and if that's the case there's plenty of options there's over three thousand they made a movie about you Charles who do you want to play as you Chris Pratt they are writing three books about aetherium they're three separate authors authors Laura Sheehan Camilla Russo I think and then one other and there are several chapters where I'm those books and if they sell well little option a movie so I might end up being played by somebody depending upon the the narrative to find the villain or the hero or just a side character will depend on the actor who plays me just as long as it's not Jack Black we have a red meditation by Marcus Aurelius yes stoicism for the wind I'm a bigger fan of Albert Camus tulsi gabbard seems like she would be a good president hang loose I love Hawaii and she's she's one of our native hawaiians of all the crazy Democrats running she's the least offensive to me and and it's I think a great great you know example of where that party is currently at that she's not doing very well and being brutalized despite the fact that she's the only one running who actually served in a war and dealt with the consequences of what politicians have done they just don't seem to very very concerned with practical things I did have a conversation with Laura SH and actually then when I was in New York I had a two and a half hour interview with her and we'll probably have another interview mm-hmm please contact IVA on Tech for interviews he says you never replied too busy I will go on Ivan's show I just haven't had the time I was on a huge huge huge tour do you only own one shirt of 52 of the same shirt that's for me to know remember I'm a evil man according to certain people on YouTube we shall remain nameless are you a fan of the Royal wallet yes huge fan excuse me hey Charles name your favorite rock band that is Boston I was brokenhearted that I couldn't get them to play at the summit they were busy so we got Steve Miller to play I also really love Pink Floyd we did talk to them they were willing to come back together but I wasn't willing to pay the price of having them come back together for a private event but they are an interesting band Steve Miller Band CC are also great so you guys at the summit will have a lot of fun with that share all 70 pushups can you do more than you'd think less than I used to be able to let's see here what's your favorite TV show and don't say Big Bang God I don't like the Big Bang Theory it's pretty trite no I really prefer on the animated side Rick and Morty and Bojack horseman are the two shows that I always follow used to watch Arthur but I kind of fallen out of favor with me then on the form out drama side west world is a phenomenal show really really enjoy it Breaking Bad was also nice never gotten a better call Paul saw you mentioned in the New York City meetup that Iowa Kate was doing some research um proof work can you elaborate a bit on that yes we are you know we actually have a whole team that's still thinking about proof of work and we've done some interesting things we have a consensus protocol we're working on codenamed Minotaur because no chains can bind it and it's a major step forward with the proof of work world and yes I am ready for the final season of Game of Thrones season seven was terrible season six was a masterpiece I think they're rushing things a bit and also george RR martin really needs to publish his damn book so that they actually go back on script is the concept of the meetups based on the movie Fight Club with Edward Norton and Brad Pitt that's a thought the first rule of crypto club don't talk about crypto club favorite sport chess well that's always a question of to play or to watch I think I'm gonna get into soccer because I just bought a football team a soccer team and that's gonna be interesting I know very little about the sport but actually I've become enamored with it and so I figured learn by doing and you know I had a little bit of spare money laying around so I figured by something the team I bought are the Jinja hippos and we'll make some sort of announcement about that soon UFC is also great how many pins can you fit in your front pocket to always put two I currently have three but this one is a marker yes I always have two two right and actually one of the things I've been doing lately he's putting a pen and my collar especially when I don't have a front pen and I really like it I didn't expect the collar to be so awesome for holding pens but it is do you Bale your own hay for your horses we are going to grow hay this season in fact we're talking with a neighbor right now about him sharing his field of our field and pulling it together and harvesting together and splitting the hay but we're on fifty acres so we do have some room for it I'm also gonna plant some sunflowers not gonna run cattle on the ranch we're gonna probably run yaks and alpacas the problem with me is I kind of fall in love with the animals and if I had cows I'd probably name them and then it would be too hard to slaughter them but if you get yaks and all pakka's you can shave them and make money off of the fur so you never actually have to kill them yeah we do have chickens just got fourteen of them to died yeah you know we we're down to 12 you little baby chicks you always lose a few of them but I think that we we should be at about 10 maybe less but 10 sounds good okay not only alpacas spit they also run away llamas are a lot more stout and they're kind of stronger also you can put hats on the llamas it's a Jason Steele reference [Music] I bought my leather jacket at Overland and I've had it for years and it's a dual zipper jacket so the interior is usually wise up up and the exterior eyes if up when it's very cold and I mean you'll see some pictures like when I was in the Arctic Circle where I had both of them zipped have you met Dan Larimer I used to work with Dan Larimer many years ago not only have I met him I met his family we do not get along were you ever good at arcade Donkey Kong you know I played it but it was a little bit before my time I was really good at a game on Nintendo called Bubble Bobble and I also played what was it called came in a blue cartridge and it was called crystal miner I was really good at that game as well never want it I don't even know if he can win it it's back in the days where you could just create games that didn't have endings and people didn't care Christel minor it wasn't Crystal Castles you played a little robot you drove around collecting diamonds and then you try to avoid little things are there any known companies that show an interest billing gaps on card on oh yes many and we'll get to that next time do you plan to come to Brazil anytime soon you know our director of engineering is Brazilian Bruno paleo and he is going to Brazil after the average-case summit we'll see if we can convince him to do a few Portuguese meetup groups we also have several / Cillian cryptographers like Mario Lauren Gerrie in our organization who have done some great work so well but I got the Brazil and actually it's not ginger it's ginger ginger is a city in Uganda and that's where the team is based yeah we will have support for the legend nano X I've requested that that's gonna happen I like the legend endo X it's pretty pretty awesome how many acres is the ranch why not Buffalo we raise cows and Buffalo it's 50 acres bison are kind of really hard to raise you know you build fences for cattle you just use a single electric fence or a barbed wire fence and they tend to just rub up up against them to scratch themselves but outside of that they they leave them alone you build fences for bison they just go right through the damn fences awesome so they're real hard to raise if you ever look at the bison ranches up in Wyoming or other areas they built these giant stone walls to contain them bison are are not really the easiest of animals to deal with now yaks on the other hand are kind of like cattle but actually in Mongolia they have gambling games where they sow yaks are co-located with bulls so the Bulls will try to show their dominance over the male yaks and so the herd sires will go out each other and lock horns and so the Bulls actually have more strength than the acts but the yaks have more endurance and so the Mongols will actually bet on who's going to win so if it's a long game the Yak almost always wins if it's a short one the bull will overpower the Yak so I've lost quite a bit of money in Mongolia gambling on yak cow yak yak bull conflict it's it's a great sport though the football team is based in Uganda katelyn long is coming to the I which case summit if you guys come to the I which case something you'll have chance to see her presentation we'd love work with her on the future of regulation and we'll definitely have a conversation with her yea-ah see Floyd also does great job the Pink Floyd experience I think is the Australian band and then Brit Floyd is the other cover band for Pink Floyd we asked both of them to play at the I which case summit and both of them are busy dammit their prices are quite reasonable they were going to be the opening act for Steve Miller so we decided to go with the legendary CCR instead and they agreed and I'll actually introduce them and spend some time with the CCR guys and also with Steve Miller I like Brit Floyd more than the Australian Pink Floyd experience car dot o is what aetherium would have been had I stayed at etherium all right let's get this wrapped up guys give me some interesting questions you could raise Bigfoot hey it actually there's a movie I'm gonna watch it's the man who killed Hitler and then killed Bigfoot it's got that cowboy guy that was in the Big Lebowski it looks amazing it's probably a terrible movie but I like movies like that have you noticed how lovely the spokeswoman for Nexo is that's Teodoro yes everyone's noticed that I think that's why they hired her for her brilliance and really they navigate the markets and also a friendly demeanor hi Charles what does the butterfly mean the butterfly there's two butterflies through the eye which k butterfly and then there's the atala butterfly the Atalla butterfly come to the I which case summit you'll learn all about it we'll announce something related to that and the Iowa Kay butterfly it's cascading disruption this concept at the butterfly effect subtle changes can have dramatic impacts on society as a whole and we will have shorter addresses when Shelley comes out there'll be about half the size and then human-readable addresses will come we've been talking to a lot of people about either a partnership to bring that in like with the field protocol or doing it ourselves when are you planning on kids never and we're gonna have children do you speak Italian no nope are loaded Danny on oh yeah why is Vitalik not on Rogen what would he do on Joe Rogan that would be like taking the eland musk interview and dialing it up to 11 come on guys there are certain there are certain people's just are not built for that format I would argue that Vitalik is not well constructed for that format are you active on Linkedin no I don't even update my page I actually on purpose have an incomplete profile and it bothers the hell out of all the LinkedIn trolls are you a candidate's fan no tee's oasiz using formal methods do you see them as a big competitor not really I mean there's a lot of complementarity it was some of the things they're doing versus what we're doing I've noticed that esos community tends to attract certain subsets of people who are just really mean I mean guys own your fundraiser I've certainly owned mine owned yours own the sins on the past and yeah own that people can criticize you I've never criticized their engineers I've never criticized the the efforts just criticized that they raised two hundred and fifty million dollars and handed Johan givers and then complain when Johan wanted to use it for his own interests what the hell did you expect put this guy in power you know I own it they never did and then I'm the bad guy and so they go our read it over and over again and they're really butthurt that were worth three times as much money as them and and they feel like they're ahead of us for some reason well we're ahead of you because we did research it's not a cult of personality around a single engineer and a team of people that support them we've written 42 papers we've invented new things like provably secure proof of stake and use sidechains protocol and all these other things and the market has a perception that these things will become reality at some point when they do they're a massive technological leap forward over our competition if you want that use some of your 250 million dollars to also buy scientist and write great innovative papers or else you can just complain that you're not getting enough attention yeah there are some things I do like like Mickelson is is actually an entirely reasonable language we did diligence on it I think that they've done some good work there yeah okay do you like electronic music well everybody likes electronic music you know ironically I think that if Trent Reznor just focused on that instead of some things he's done with Nine Inch Nails he'd probably be the pissed he humph guy of all time you could kind of see a little bit of what he made the album with what was his name Atticus Ross or something with the social network those techno themes that they had they were so well done and I was like wow this guy all a man I really wish he did to that and he took that time off to do how to destroy angels with his wife or girlfriend or whatever that relationship was that was one of the low points and he's solar on the ranch I am exploring geothermal HVAC I'm really excited about this so when people think geothermal they think about energy generation but you can use geothermal to actually heat and cool homes and provide hot water so basically if you dig about two three meters down you get below frost line and then you have a relatively constant temperature regardless of the surface temperature and that temperature differential you can leverage that with a loop system and a coolant to basically either extract heat from underground or to store heat and you can create a loop field that's either horizontal or vertical so if you're limited on space you go about 50 to 200 meters underground with loop system if you can dig trenches then you treat them about the same distance but just horizontally so I'm ranch so we can do horizontal loops here but basically you if once you put all these systems in place you just create a pump system and by changing pressure you can either increase temperature or lower temperature and fix it and it extracts energy or stores energy underground but geothermal HVAC is great it's about five times more efficient than a conventional furnace that burns natural gas and about the same efficiency than conventional air conditioning system and it's basically constant efficiency regardless of in temperature whereas an air-conditioner is the least efficient at hottest temperatures and so as a consequence you need more energy at hotter temperatures so we're going to explore it on the ranch couple it with a solar system to power the pumps and we'll see we'll see if that works if it does I'm going to convert all the structures in the ranch to have geothermal a track and then we're also going to do radiant heating on the driveway all the way through so I never have to shovel snow because Colorado does dump snow another thing I'm go to explore is glow-in-the-dark driveway I got this idea from Amsterdam if you go around some of the suburbs of the Netherlands outside of Amsterdam Lisa in other places they actually put glow-in-the-dark materials into the concrete itself for bike paths so you can do this with any concrete structure and so I'm going to try to do a bunch of glow-in-the-dark artwork all the way throughout my driveway because I'm going to rip up the whole driveway to put radiant pipes underneath it that are part by the geothermal system so I already have to tear out the concrete anyway so it'd be fun to put something there the other thing is I'm probably to put it on black concrete so if you google if you google Netherlands glow-in-the-dark bike path you can see images of what these things look like and they're very pretty so I'm going to take that inspiration and try to do it here and try to do it here with geothermal now because there is a temperature gradient between below frost line and you know ambient temperature above you potentially could embed Stirling engines into that type of a system and potentially maybe generate some sort of background electricity if anything perhaps to regenerate a battery or maybe even power a home it probably would not be as cost-effective as solar or wind it may be in order of magnitude actually less effective you'd have to do some calculations on those gradients but it would be 24/7 continuous electricity generation or it just it could potentially be base load power so I didn't read one paper from the 80s on this and there's a guy who had a grant out in Colorado who studied using load delta stirling engines with a geothermal HVAC system for energy generation so that's one thing if I ever had some spare time I'd look into it and spend some time with it it's a it's a pretty cool concept that you know you can earth power your home but at the fair at least eight geothermal HVAC is is really cool it's a bit more expensive than a conventional system but they last basically forever they're super low maintenance they're quiet they don't burn any fossil fuels and you know they're they're easy to power with solar and you also get free hot water out of it you know speaking of blow in the dark you know bacteria you know you these fluorescent jeans are quite interesting yeah my first time I ever encountered them were when people were cross-linking genes with rabid dogs of silina which is a weed that is commonly used for genetic studies the whole genome has been sequenced and every student of genetics has some experience with this plant so what they would do is connect whatever gene they were interested in with a jellyfish gene and if the plant glows in the dark then they know that the jellyfish gene has been the gene they're interested in it's been basically taken out by the plant so you just look at it and say oh okay great I'm going to consumer plants like trees and other such things and you could actually sell them people have been doing this with glofish and you can actually see bizarre Frankenstein style experiments where they did this with rabbits and dogs that glow in the dark and it would be pretty cool to do it with plants though because then I could actually have a 24/7 garden so you have a day garden then you have a night garden the day garden looks like a normal garden and that night hello's in the dark at different colors then it would attract all kinds of bizarre insects and then it would attract a lot of nocturnal creatures to eat the insects so you'd actually have to complete biomes for one garden never sleeves when flying car we will never have that if we're gonna have like drones that pick us up and drag us through the goddamn air you know before we have flying cars we've been trying to do that forever man but you know if you live in Alaska or a remote area you know you can use a you know what are those called paragliding where you actually have the fan on your back and the parachute you just take off with it fly through the sky some people on Alaska use that to get to work [Music] all right let's come on guys well you integrate with inter ledger ever there's no reason not to because then the user is deciding whether they want to do that or not we is certainly going to integrate with lightning we actually Rob Cohen as the guy who's in charge of that project and he's gonna do a great presentation at the I which key summit about it mycology just finished mrs and plant nutrition worked with bioluminescent fungi wish you well that you know mycology is an under studied field I'd encourage anyone listening to look at the work of Paul Stamets he's a great entry point into how magical mushrooms can be I've recently started drinking mushroom coffee it's actually quite good and quite nutritious and there's all kinds of really cool different mushrooms you can take that have been shown to have great health effects in particular lion's mane and I've been trying that gorgeous EPS or another one if you ever watched the game The Last of Us that's actually a scientifically valid zombie apocalypse what do you think of the Winx manuscript really pretty book I've actually seen it in person / Yale you know mushrooms do actually have the ability to communicate with each other my Celia actually links trees together and they can send chemical signals to each other so if you guys are ever up for a cool Google search go ahead and look at wood wide Network what like a tree WOD wide Network it's basically like an internet for trees using Mesilla if you're interested in the Voynich manuscript by the way look at the Codex Gygax it's this giant Bible written by a monk and they think the devil inspired him all right let's see if we have anything else oh good to see you I don't got doors I must uh it was for beta check us t is Haskell your favorite language or there's something you find as are more interesting I really think Haskell is probably one of the best industrial functional programming languages on market it's probably a good question NDMA with let's talk about programming languages for a bit if you're really keen to learn a bit about programming you know really you need to take step back and say well there's kind of two routes you can go into that makes sense to me the first route is just this concept of computation in general like where did this come from a lot of this stuff came from mathematicians trying to figure out better ways of stating mathematical proofs as as as kind of algorithms and programs and finding a way to actually mechanize mathematics so I you know you can you can just write stuff you know break into logical statements culled well-formed formulas and then gradually show that somehow this formula is true or false or that you don't have enough information to solve it it's it's undecidable because you you know have a complete set of axioms but in the process of studying these things there was actually three different foundations that were discovered lambda calculus was one recursive functions was another that was done by kernel lambda calculus was done by Alonzo Church and then finally Alan Turing with the Turing machine now if you study that stuff then you really kind of understand what is programming all about at its core like bedrock the theoretical underpinning of why does this all matter and then the let's make math better and let's rebuild the foundations of math that ended up becoming the provenance of the logicians and type theorists and all kinds of cool things were developed along that thread throughout the 20th century and the people who study that fall in love with functional programming and they can do quite a bit with it then the other route there's a great book called from NAND na n d2 Tetris it was written by Shaka and known Assad and this book basically starts with the NAND gate which is the fundamental thing in electrical engineering fun of it all thing and then you work from the NAND gate all the way to writing your own game of Tetris so you start with like how did the circus work - how does the operating system work and how do the programming languages work and we're going to write everything along the way our own compilers and our own interpreters our own OS and basically our own synthetic hardware and at some point you have enough information that you can write your own tetris game with it that gives you a very mechanistic detailed understanding of how these boxes work these computation devices work the stored computer architecture all these things so that you can actually have an intelligent conversation about how the code Rob's the environment that the code runs so if you have those two entry points then you know enough that you basically learn anything and then you know it's just a matter of you know learning the foundations of computer science so the structure interpretation computer programming and the art of computer programming are two foundational text books you'll encounter languages like scheme and Lisp and they're great entry points honestly I'd say the most productive language a young computer scientists can learn there are two one is Python the other is Scala Python because it is basically like the pseudo code Kathy I want to do it quickly I wanna script it quickly and it just it just has so many damn useful libraries for things there's no sage for all this stuff there's a Conda there's great data science tools for it and it's just a little bit everything you build real stuff in Python and Google loves it and they put a lot of money into it other people love it in Scala because it's probably the most balanced and useful of all programming languages you get the whole Java world you get the whole object-oriented world but then you get the whole functional world and it does both of them well enough that you can build some of the most elegant and really well tested well-thought-out applications but you don't give up too much in that process so if you have learned anything the Scala IDE saves the language learn there's a great series of Coursera classes from typesafe there's a good introductory computer science textbook on Scala with watching you two blushes for it and if you learn that you know that's a will that'll just keep on giving now if you want to use more advanced functional programming techniques and be more pure you know I then you have a blend which is like Oh camel f-sharp Haskell and you can even go cray-cray you can go up to super Haskell that's AG de you can look at languages like and lean and as you go into these more esoteric applications generally you're only doing this because you're either mathematician who wants to prove something and know it's right and you're you let computational logic or you are an aerospace engineer or medical software dude or doing what we do at AI which K where the failure of the software results either loss of human life like in the case of the MCAS air with the Boeing 737 or the loss of property like one a space probe explodes or something like that so so you know if you don't need to do that then don't do it it's too hard there are books to learn these things like software foundations from Benjamin Pierce's one we wrote one Phil Wadler wrote it which took software foundations and it wrote it with with Agda but you know if you don't have to go down that road that's a that's a deep deep tunnel and it doesn't give much back in terms of practical engineering I'd say mastering Scala would be an incredibly strong entry point and it gives you the dynamicism to kind of go in many different directions call is a great prototyping language it's a great language to build general purpose applications and it's great data science language it's a great micro service architecture language neski and Netflix uses a wonderful libraries wonderful support it's been around for I think 15 years or something like that and there's a lot of magic to it if you fall in love with lips closure is a very solid wonderful ecosystem easy to work with close your script that's great and that's fun if you if you fall in love with object-oriented programming you know then just use better C which is rust you know that's a great language or you know go is an entirely in the language as well Google did a good job in that ecosystem Imus add that dart didn't get more love I think darts a great language too but typescript kind of beat that war even Google threw in the towel there I think angular is using typescript as its scripting framework anyway we can talk about languages forever my friends but we're unfortunately out of time thank you guys all for listening and I certainly had a lot of fun and it's always humbling you know when I have a chance to share some of my life with you and I'll let you know how the yaks alpacas and camels are doing once they've all up they've all been integrated Cheers