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Intro: Okay is that better for everybody? I wasn't able to switch my microphone to my Yeti mic or to my Logitech real camera and I hope everybody can hear this a lot better and there's no echo and the cameras better for you guys, let me know in the chat. all right well anyway uh it's right now midnight here in Colorado but occasionally I do AMAs late at night because apparently there's places in the world other than the United States and in those places sometimes it's daytime when it's nighttime here so I might the bullet and I try to get a little bit of a nap in so that I can talk to you guys too because I love you guys as much as everyone else. A few things, one I wanted to give an update of where we're at with ledger and where we are at with Shelley and then open it up for question. So in terms of ledger things are moving along quite well. What happened was that there needed to be pretty considerable update to the software that was going on the ledger. So we worked with a third-party company called vacuum labs and vacuum labs has finished their package of work and now Ledger and Emurgo are working real hard at trying to get your Royri and they think that there's a pretty good possibility not 100% but very good like greater than 50% that they should be able to get that out in month of March so in just a few weeks. If you guys have ledger devices laser nanos you should be able to use those Ledger's in the OI your. ROI has really been a phenomenal success. I'm super super happy with the speed at which they're developing features and the acceleration that they're gaining and the product quality still looks pretty good. other still some issues here and there mobile clients aren't where they quite need to be but the the code is is quite nice to work with and it's nice to see that a mergo is able to really help a lot of people out and get to accessibility to the next level. so ledger probably coming in March very good possibility of that we're a little bit behind them because we're in the middle of a massive update and we have to kind of clear that update first and then we can start building features and functionality like ledger multi-sig but if for me it's really important that at least one of the Cardinal wallets does support ledger because then that means if you have a ledger device then you can use that while it is the interface and it really doesn't matter with the security model because at the end of the day your wallet is an interface to talk to the alleged device but the private keys live on that device so whether you interface through Leroy or you interface through dental is it doesn't change your security reality and I would argue probably it's better to use a web interface like your ROI because it has a faster user experience it just boots really quickly and it's really easy to install your ROI and manage these things so it's you know until we get like clients for Dedalus that's probably the way to go so that's the story there now in terms of Shelley the milestone for Shelley really they're they're kind of three buckets of work that we do and each of those buckets has to be done for Shelley to begin so Byron was launched in September of 2017 late September and now we are reaching the end of life of Byron so the last major update to Byron was 1.4 and the first update to begin the Shelley era for our current code base in Marquette is 1.5 so 1 point 5 is the OPF T update it's been a QA hell for a bit because the CEREC l codes been so difficult to work with but the good news is it's starting to work its way through that at a faster pace so a very strong possibility that 1.5 will ship before the end of march there could be some factors like regressions or other little things that we discovered but those are unlikely the code is feature complete and now it's just a matter of making sure that it passes all of our QA tests when you do a consensus upgrade that's a rather significant event for your system but this particular protocol is much simpler than or borse Genesis so it means that the testing can be done more quickly so 1.5 is on his way look for that and you can kind of watch it work its way through QA if you you clever about heart commits work and we'll let you guys know when and how that's that's going to come out now when we ship it it's not going to provoke a heart for immediately because we need to give partners time to upgrade some exchanges are still on 1.3.1 and have not even updated at one point four and euro is back end is still based on a heavily modified version of 1.2 so we're working with them to try to get them upgraded because in addition to the OB of T update 1.5 also is going to fully deprecated the V 0 AP eyes so if you've implemented change goes away you know you're gonna have to redo your implementation to to get your exchange to work properly with the wallet packing so we're in discussions with all the exchanges that hold cardinal and they send us messages and where we're going our way through that so 1.5 is where the first major step in Shelley and then there's going to be a series of updates that come quickly I mean she and every one of them will be rolling in new features in your functionality second we've been working really hard at finalizing the candidate specifications for Shelley so while code is nice at the end of the day if this is a truly decentralized ecosystem then any person regardless of who they are should have the ability to look at a series of documentation specification which is independent of a particular philosophy and just has its it's written in math or ela or some language they should be able to take that and write their own client we did this with theorem classic and actually a theory and with the back to his client we did not talk to the etherium foundation we didn't ask for permission we didn't have to get right access to their github or something like that we just took the yellow paper the documentation of aetherium and from that documentation we were able to build a Scala client from scratch fifteen thousand lines of code it took a while but we did that and that client was able to talk to the gift notes and the parody nodes and other nodes in the system so if card on was to achieve this same level of quality in terms of specification documentation our specs do need to be complete so the Berlin delegation summit that we had in January was a very good event it was a very rigorous event there were a lot of conversations that took quite a bit of time and working our way through that event we discovered there were a lot of little small details in the specifications that needed to be slightly changed here and there and cleaned but what we've been able to do is mostly resolve that and now we're in the process of taking the implementations that we've done for horse prowess and Genesis and then deriving specifications from those implementations and from the paper innovation sure both sides agree we actually have two independent implementation those protocols one is on the rest side ones on the Haskell side and there's a bit of a drift between those two so there's going to have to be a reconciliation that's that's done and that reconciliation will happen the ensuing weeks so our goal is to have all the candidate specifications for card ah no done for Shelly done before the end of q1 that might slip a little bit but we're almost there it technically you don't need specifications done to ship a product like Shelly but what that effectively means is that there are parts of your protocol or your cryptocurrency and this is quite common most of cryptocurrencies from Bitcoin to etherium have things that are off spec you don't need to have a specification done to ship the product it's just if you do that then that means you're basically seeing the code is the specification for example when runtime verification worked with on the KVM project they found out that the yellow paper was not a complete specification of the design of the theater virtual machine so they actually had to look at the implementation of it and look at how solidity worked and other things to kind of backward engineer exactly how the etherion virtual machine works and create a complete set of formal semantics for it so we'll be in a similar situation in a little bit in the beginning and certain things are off spec there's no high quality and they're written with good coding practices and standards it's just that we don't have three to six months to sit down and academically argue about very fine details what we can do is we can backfill things and because we have two clients that have to converge we'll do that through a specification driven process at a later date so the formal methods team is working pretty quickly and we should have a complete set of candidate specs either by the end of this quarter or by the middle of next quarter and then a convergence of specifications between the two clients and and then there's going to be a period of reconciliation there a few things we're also going to do some Gogan related specification at the same time because it's low hanging fruit so we're gonna create a specification for extended UT Excel and also for multi asset accounting which means that those are the asset issuance so our er C 20 and then there's a few other little things like the sidechain specification which will come as well which is a prerequisite for Kokan but we also want to get it out the door because the side chains model also gives us super efficient like clients so so that's where we're at in terms of second bucket specification and we're moving pretty quickly the third thing is basically the winking eyes state so when we say Shelley we say staking that's the most common notion and that's an accurate notion so staking always begins first on a test net because a lot can go wrong so you want to make sure that people actually know what they're doing and people understand the mechanics and also we have to set a lot of parameters and so we have an idea and if you read our specifications right now they're the github repo and some point we'll just push them PDFs if people don't want to build the latex if you read the specs we have a candidate set of parameterizations everything from the rewards to give to the incentives to try to accumulate how many stick pools but it'll be a hundred or a thousand ten thousand these types of things and so it's really important that we get some feedback and it's a two-way conversation between us in the community so that we can sign a nice set of candidate parameters for the system is that the other day the theory says it's secure whether you pick X or Y or Z X Y or Z is an economic and community preference so you establish that economic and community preference through the through the test net phase so we have the Haskell team working really hard to get to a test net and we have the rest team working really hard to get your test net now the rest team they have a true hacker mentality so they asked me a few weeks ago if I could fly every single one of them out to Hongkong and they could have like a month-long brutal codeathon boot camp where they just go ahead and work like hell and not sleep and try to get everything to work the way they want so I said well if you can find me an office space you can go to then I'll consider it so ergo Hong Kong was gracious enough to actually lend their office space to our Rus team so I said alright and they flew from France and England and other places and all went to Hong Kong so now the entire rest team is sitting in Hong Kong working basically non-stop and their goal is to try to converge to get all the features finished for a four test and as quickly as possible so as we get towards the end of February we'll get more updates for you on exactly when that test that's going to land but to me it's a very high priority to get that test that out in q1 and at that point we are in the Shelly era as well have specs that's one bucket we'll have the first of a series of hard Forks enabled and at some point we flip this switch and sticking has begun in addition to that you need people to stake so we launched the stick pull taskforce there were about 1300 people who signed up and then we went to the old list that was sent out last year in April and there were a few thousand people on that and we got them all into a communication channel and they're asking questions I think we have a few hundred questions so far that have accumulated so basically we're creating a structured process for people to ask questions anybody in can join this group anybody can ask questions within this group they all go to a repo and then somebody's job is to go through filter all of them you know combine duplicate questions and or restate questions in a way that are a little bit easier for us to parse and answer especially given that many people don't speak English as a first language me and some questions do come in in different languages and they need to be translated once that's done then it goes to us pumpkin Bruno myself a girl owes other people we answer those questions and we write all those answers down we give them to the girl and then they say well that's interesting but your answers giving us more questions we repeat the process and the goal is to do it a few times until we have a huge corpus of information now I've got some questions of why are we doing this what was the point of variety of this Q&A process well it's because I've noticed repeatedly on Twitter reddit that people don't really understand how our course works sticking works or even basic mechanics of what we're proposing for example there's this impression that you have to freeze your ADA to - steak and that as long as you're doing that you're eight is locked and you can't go do something with it that's not entirely true and that's something that people believe because of things that Casper has been proposing and we're not cast burden we have nothing to do with their protocol so instead of just answering the same question over and over and over and over what we've decided to do is just say let them all ask us at once we'll get it all into material and once we have that then we can create a FAQ and we can create content around that blog post videos and other things so when you in the community see somebody ask about this instead of trying to answer it you can just point them with only and say this answer is everything and if they say oh I don't want to read that they say well then you don't deserve an answer also we talked to the Clio guys the guys who did the Marcus and Robert the guys who did the first Plutus course training course and we asked them to assist us in parsing the questions and once they've parsed basically taking our answers and creating educational material based on that so we will create educational material the Cardinal foundation will create some educational material and some third-party community people will as well now after we have we've done this whole stateful thing and we have this huge pool of people that are really excited interesting some subset of them will be fairly technically capable and that is the perfect set of people to take and plop right into the Shelli test map then instead of just launching a test net you have launched a test net with people who actually care about a test set and understand what you're trying to accomplish and then we can begin systematic stress testing and go through many different scenarios in our risk register and verify that the theoretical guarantees of the protocol actually match reality so for example if you have 101 people doing something make 50 of them malicious and 51 honest and let's just verify that the protocol still runs it should because that's terrific guarantee and if it doesn't then something's wrong in the implementation we don't think there's something wrong but it's really nice to run these scenarios as a sanity check because then it tells us an objective third party people that we've actually achieved what we've wanted so that's where we're at a huge hackathon and things are moving really quickly on the rest side kind of priming the pool and getting a large group of people to flood into the Shelli test net and these will be sophisticated people so once they leave this process there will be a lot of surrogacy and they can actually start building communities and answering questions and many many many people are very excited about that and then hopefully we could have a very short time period to move over into Shelli on the Haskell side things are still moving in a pretty good direction we have a lot of very refined and elegant ideas that the house colors have been working on and what we're trying to do is figure out how do we get those ideas into reasonable realistic and reasonable timelines so we did a little bit of shuffling at i/o HK to try to speed things up and to make processes run better so at the moment our company's most effective and efficient engineering group is actually has nothing to do with cryptocurrency it has everything to do is blockchain that's our enterprise work group led by Bruno Paleo Bruno has never missed a deadline he's always delivered under budget and ahead of schedule and they actually have about a four to six week release cycle and they've been building an enterprise framework in Scala so the work they're doing there is just top-notch and we're almost in a position where we're just about ready to begin pilots in Ethiopia and other places using that Enterprise framework which we consider to be a great gateway drug to get people into the Cardinal ecosystem because once you get them into a blockchain system they have wallets and identities and you can use that to connect it by our protocols to a cryptocurrency and of course the one will connect it to is Cardinal because that's the one I care about not aetherium so so anyway that group is just a phenomenal work I love the fact that every four weeks they release something and usually pretty good and they're fairly bug free and it's highly motivated team so what we decided to do is move Bruno into a leadership role at i/o which case so we promoted him to be our director of engineering and we moved Duncan into a lead technical architect role where he can do the things that he does best which is worry about the architecture and the design of the system and less about the day-to-day processes of how to manage engineers and also how to think about software methodology in terms of you know how do we release how do we do a-and how do we manage basically getting ourselves into a reasonable release cycle I'm unhappy with how long it takes to go from 1.3 1.4 and so forth some of this has to do with inherited technical debt and some of this has to do was just bad processes that were really not well thought out from prior management in some cases myself so the good news is that Bruno is now on board and he's computational logician he got his PhD in two years good h-index so he's both an academic and a formal methods expert but he's done a really really good programmer as well originally from Brazil but he does live in Australia and he's worked with our company for well over a year and he's done just a great work so we also hired David s-sir and David's job is to be a product manager so what he does is he sits down every day and worries about user experience he worries about bugs fact one of the first things that he did is he talked with guys at the helpdesk and he said send me all the love reports he's hairy sure about that because there's there's a lot of tickets we get and he said I want to see him I want to drink for the firehose so he worries a lot about that David fluffed my ranch here in Colorado and spent a week with us and we we've been giving David Jeremy and I a huge amount of information about Cardinal so he's going to be worried a lot about basically getting the rest test that where it needs to go and working with Bruno to get the Haskell team into a ship ready delivery culture but preserve the rigor and preserve the really cool ideas they have and also make sure that we do proper reconciliation this frees me up to do things like build partnerships and it frees me up also to think about bigger more significant features to the system especially as we begin entering the gogans era and later ears which will include governance features and so forth which are coming faster than you think and we have to begin doing work now if we if you want to ship them in a reasonable period of time so that's where we're at shelly is staking staking is coming soon either it's going to be on the rest side of the Haskell cot site more likely not the first test that will be rust will hit right now priming a large group of people to participate anybody can but we'd like to at least have some a fairly good participants the specs are entering candidate phase there some cases will have multiple specifications like on the network stack we're actually probably have three candidate specifications one from the rest one that's being built on the enterprise side which could be potentially reused in cardano's and then what the network team has been doing on the Haskell side just about fifty sixty percent done give or take maybe a little bit more but they're converging to a funnel design which has some really cool features about it but it's implemented with dependent types and there's a little bit of complexity there so we have to kind of work our way through it and get our spec to where it needs to be okay so I'll shut up now that's that's your update now let's get to your questions Aloha Darcy is that the Darcy from from the hotel in Lahaina okay let's see here some of the questions you guys have yeah that's a good question from ch about Windows input until the rest of all ends cross-platform compatibility is an open question for the first generation I suspect we will deploy the Windows Mac and Windows but it's more of a DevOps question and we have to wait for the software to reach a certain level of maturity before we get to the process of building things my preference would be to have a turnkey docker image that we deploy but it may be that the first generation is a Linux push and that's followed by a Windows and a Mac effort because you have to remember that it's a different user class when you're talking about a stake pool in particular the user client is fine and it's gonna be a command-line interface the first client on the state on the on the test net but when you're talking about a stake pool there's a high probability that people are just going to be deploying to something like Amazon Web Services or Azure and they'll be dealing with a linux server and if that's the case then it matters a little bit less about Windows interoperability there the preferred environment for servers generally is Linux but remember that's for state pools not for Shelly consumer clients were of course going to have Windows Mac Linux and mobile client interoperability there I see this one a lot too well I okay extend card on a contract beyond 2020 I think we don't extend contract clients has more to do more work but there's a scope of work with card on and that scope of work will get done even if it takes additional time to do it but I think we have a good chance of hitting all those milestones because you know the front part was heavy research and we're now exiting heavy research and going to a hard core implementation and we kind of learnt had to learn how to do that the way it needed to be done and we're now converging as a company to being able to do really fast software development so I think 2020 at the end of 2020 is a reasonable deadline for everything that was what we were planning for that first generation we need a Treasury system not just for us but for everyone in the ecosystem who want to do things like I don't want a situation where the Cardinal foundation has to somehow find a way to sustain itself so that it can continue giving grants to Clio or tan gem or other people I want a situation where if you have a cool idea you just go to the Treasury you submit a ballot and you go and make the case of the community directly and then there's a democratic process upon which people approve and reject that and that there's dedicated money for these people if we get to that then we're a very sustainable ecosystem because you don't have gatekeepers the minute that you have somebody who decides at the top that person is your king it's the golden rule he who has the gold makes the rules so we're not going to stop till that Treasury is done at the very least and if there's still more work to do then and we're not funded for that then we'll submit a Treasury ballot but I don't think it'll take that okay yeah actually the shot the h-index the highest h-index in our company I think is 75 and that's from Phil Wadler he's written he has 25,000 citations all right see what else we got here Charles is there any other way to make Dedalus wallet download a little faster than how it is now you know it's interesting I can download the wallet very quickly from Amazon because that's where we host it but for certain groups of people the wallet binaries they download fairly slowly like him several megabyte bits per second and I'm not sure why that is I've talked to my DevOps people and they're starting to look into that but then you might also be referring to how long it takes to download the blockchain when the new network stack comes in the blockchain will download much faster because instead of being shipped from just a relay you'll have multiple relays and a peer-to-peer model and then it'll ship kind of like a torrent in that case but your mileage may vary it depends on your ISP your geography your network configuration and a lot of things can influence the rate at which a blockchain downloads ideally we'd like to get to a world where you do not have to download the entire blockchain to be effective network participant and to enjoy a reasonable level of security and not have to trust a third party now there is a arms race right now in the cryptocurrency space of how do we get the next generation like client and so you're seeing technology like elgran recently proposed the paper called vault it's a very well written paper and the long the short is that you don't have to possess the entire block chain or you TXO to be able to use the system and you'd still be able to verify that what you're looking at is secure as if you had the entire blockchain there's also another proposal out of MIT called you tree XO you TR e e XO and it's a somewhat similar idea where they're pushing some of the work to the client but you don't have to store or use the entire you take so to get your security we're also looking at taking our side chains paper the proof of stake side chains paper and saying look we can take the YouTube so we can take the merkel root of the you teak so so you put in every little leaf one of the entries and then it builds its way up to a merkel root you have that little thing and then maybe every ten blocks or a hundred blocks we put it in the header and then basically what you would do is you would retrieve the most current UTF so you retrieve the nearest header block and you just get the chain back to that and then you would verify that that you TX o matches the check point but then how do you know that that point is right well you know it's right if you use the TMS construction that we have the proof of state paper so those TMS signatures will be embedded periodically throughout the chain ten pick by epoch and you just recursively walk your way back to the Genesis block which is hard-coded with every client so in reality the total amount of data you need to download you only be a few megabytes potentially and then you would still be able to verify that that UT Excel you received is correct which means that you can instantly start working you won't necessarily have your transaction history but what it means is that I can have a light mode with Daedalus and make that the default mode so when you install Daedalus you download a small snippet of things and boom your client just starts working it's just like your ROI in that respect and that as a background process and gradually upgrades itself to the full wallet but it doesn't stop you from using your client it also means that we could start having meaningful discussions about fast bootstrapping for recovery and these things without relying on a third party Explorer or other infrastructure so we're working on that and McCauley at Algren is working on his thing and mi t--'s got their thing and the guys over unity have their thing in fact that we invited all of them to come down to the I which case summit and there's going to be some good people there and we'll talk to them about their best available process but they're writing papers were writing papers and there's going to be a grand convergence of these things what does it mean for you the consumer it means that you're not going to have to ever do what I had to do when I do in the space which is download a loogey client with a really really long time for the chain to propagate to fully download and then then use it instead you're just going to download it use it like you do a cellphone app and then wake up one day and your client happens to be more useful than it was before but you didn't have to wait for that just organically kind of happened okay see what we got here what will happen to Cardinal coins that get lost by lost keys and alike well you know Satoshi Nakamoto had an opinion on that he said that that's like a little gift to everybody in the Bitcoin ecosystem whenever anybody loses their coins and that was 2009-2010 thinking of Bitcoin rockland the stakes were quite low it is a bit disturbing when you say hey we have a global financial system and this global financial system is going to replace the dollar or be an alternative financial operating system for the entire world but then there is no recovery model when something like for example the CEO in exchange dies and his private keys are lost with them or what happens when you have inheritance situations when grandma dies you know and she's the last living member well how do you actually give her crypto to the kids you know what's that process if she never wrote her keys down or they got lost in a fire or something like that we live in the real world and when these things happen we have meatspace human processes to transition and move funds that have been lost or remediate from theft or so forth but in the Krypton world we don't quite have that so there's two schools of thought one school of thought says that you put a governance layer in your system and then if there's an issue you go to the governance layer with some evidence and you say governments layer I have this evidence and as a consequence you can clearly see that what happened was not what we intended I lied ow and there's another school of thought that says buyer beware and if it happens code is law and you're just gonna have to deal with the consequences of that and I Santa Sara spec both are right and actually I think in a certain respect both of these things can actually live together in one ledger and how you do that is you say look we're going to have differentiation on the address level and on the smart contract level for your storage and use of funds so basically what you do is you say I consent to having my funds controlled by a governance system or having sort of restoration process in the event that I get hacked or an issue occurs so I'm going to move my funds to especially constructed to address or to a smart contract that has a bunch of logic that basically allows those funds to be redistributed allows the private keys to move from one set to another set whatever you want so there's logic within there and this is the magic of smart contracts that lets you do that and then we can have an argument as a community of well what are the best practices we should have but here's the thing whatever we implement is voluntary so you get to decide whether you consent to that kind of a system and if you don't like it there can be a competing system for example in finance there's Islamic finance and there's more than a billion people that that need Sharia compliant investment products and they can't participate in certain forms of investment or financial practices out of religious respect so and there's also funds that can't invest in certain things because of ethical reasons for example Norway has one of the world's largest sovereign funds of well over a trillion dollars of money and Norway puts very strict ethical guidelines of what they can invest their sovereign fund it and if you haven't be doing those things even if you're a great investment the country of Norway won't give you money so similarly you can vote with your values and move your funds to an address to a smart contract that carries those particular values so that's the magic of where we're going with these things we will build some of them and then we can leave it to third parties to build the rest now some people say that you you shouldn't even allow this to befall the tree you should have such a pervasive governance system that the ledger can do things like reverse transactions reissue money creatively for example the Tasos governance system conceivably could allow you to create new money blacklist old money and iOS has actually already reversed transactions I do not think that that's ethical or wise we haven't resolved and shape or form the governance problems of the United States or Europe or the rest of the world so why are we to believe that somehow we're so much smarter that when hundreds of millions of people in aggregate can't quite get a government to work properly that some hackers in their basement are going to just dream up the perfect government system that will then be permanently in convert autocracy or an oligarchy and this is a committee not as subject to any particular jurisdictions laws it's like a meta government so you have no recourse or no appeal so I think there's a really really really bad idea and honestly I feel that it's much better to make these things walnut-tree and then for us to argue about what's the best way of implementing them and then once you've consented to something both parties agree that that's fine what does this mean it means that every now and then grandma makes a mistake every now and then an exchange makes a mistake and in which case you've reduced the total supply of the system which is a gift to everybody so at the very least your mistake in a way help other people get a little bit more value and it helped everybody get a little wiser and I frankly feel that any consequences and a cost for an action for it to be meaningful if you always know that you have an insurance policy that no matter what you do you can get bailed out you start behaving as if there are no consequences the way you do things for example with Wall Street when Greenspan gave them a foot and he said hey I'll always make the stock go up or later central bank leadership that allowed the mortgage crisis to exacerbate to a point of crisis and the banks didn't really care because they said well no we'll make the windfall profits today and if the system collapses we'll get bailed out and nice retirement packages you have to create consequences for a feedback loop to organically improve if Apple releases a crummy phone or Samsung releases the phone that explodes they get sued and they have bad press they lose lots of sales billions of dollars so as a consequence they have to put in good processes to avoid these types of things from happening if they said if I release a crappy phone the Korean government's just going to give us a subsidy to make up for the lost profits or the yes governments is going to bail us out well then do they particularly care if the phone is good or bad not so much and that's why certain systems like the education system the health care system the United States are so horribly broken because they've disintermediated the consumer and their purchasing behavior from the quality of the product and the outcome of the product the third-party when we pay either of our student loans or insurance so if they can just can crease the cost reduce the quality make worse outcomes and we're at loggerheads ticket prices from Raoul he asked about discounted tickets for the summit yes there will be a discount if you buy with ADA ADA pays almost done we're working with he ticks on that they're basically building in the interface we're using Eventbrite for our ticketing system so we're building an extension to Eventbrite that allows us to basically accept a debt payment it just takes a little bit of time to do that because those systems were not designed to talk to each other so we've been building for the last month and that's almost done and once it's done that we'll be able to accept ADA payments for the for the tickets and use the singular system for ticketing there's an advantage to not having parallel systems because it's a huge logistic overhead if you have parallel systems because you know you'll have one big piece of automation that Eventbrite provides and that's super turnkey easy but then you have these other tickets so what that would effectively mean is anybody who bought a ticket with ADA which show up and say hey I bought a ticket and then we say oh you're one of those aina people you have to go to that box over there and we have to have like a different line or something and I would much rather everybody's in one process in one system so that meant we had to build a bridge and so the bridge is nearly done and once it's done we'll accept it should be the 18th but maybe a day or two but I don't think it'll slip too much but it were pretty much on target for that and the the system will let you buy ticket pretty easily and inna tickets will be discounted I think it's 15 percent or 20 percent I'll have to talk to Carrie but it's a nice discount it's a sign of appreciation to our ADA holders now I've gotten a little bit of pushback on the ticket prices I the consensus event that coin desk is putting on the earlybird prices are $1200 and I've been to well over 30 conferences last year actually 58 events last year not all of them were conferences but I've seen ticket prices from $100 to $4,000 a ticket and I feel that the prices that we're charging are fairly reasonable now it's important to point out that we are not planning on making a profit from this conference the reason why we're selling tickets is that we are flying out every single aisle HK employee and the many cases family members and we renting big venue and we're providing a lot of value and the cost of doing this is the minimum of a million dollars for us so the hope of the tickets is to recoup the cost of bringing all of our people together we all spark or get them very good speakers to come in additions a lot of great academics have already RSVP'd and they'll be there for panels including some of our competitors and they'll be able to go there and make the case why their protocols are better than our protocols and we also have some surprise guests that are pretty fun and we recently signed up a very very nice musical guest actually two musical guests one is the world famous musician well actually both of them are famous bands that have been around for a while if you buy a VIP ticket you actually get to go to the VIP conference a concert so I think there's just gonna be a lot of value there there's hackathons workshops some of them are going to talk about zero knowledge proof some are going to talk about Plutus some of them are going to talk about a lot of the engineering principles we use how to use NYX there's going to be a crypto puzzle where we're going to take an ATM wallet pick the keywords and break them apart into four different puzzles one will be on the t-shirt and three more throughout the conference hall and the first person to break all four of those puzzles will get the ADA and there you go no purchase necessary and there's just a dozens of other little things like that and there'll be some good sponsors and so forth and it's also an opportunity to not just be me but be literally everybody in my company so if you ever want to meet Phil Wadler or a closer Duncan or Bruno or you know see some of the other people that make the magic happen they're going to be there and many cases giving presentations and you can directly interact with them and we can do some cool stuff together so it's also the American people will be there and the Cardinal foundation will be there we partnered with tan gem and we're hoping that everybody who attends the conference will also get a free tan gym wallet so that's a lot of value and we'll just keep adding and adding and adding as the week's go on and more people get interested in attending so I feel that the ticket prices are quite fair and again the hope is just simply for the tickets to recoup the investment of bringing all of our people together this also gives us a chance to work toward something as a company and we'd like to show a lot of really cool accomplishments by the summit or else would be pretty boring summit so in many ways the existence of a summit like this and the fact that we have that accountability of a deadline kind of forces you to work under pressure and do your best work and get things out quicker so it accelerates the launch of Shelly it accelerates our competitiveness it shows off all the things we've done it'll help us dispel this myth that we're just a white paper and we're just a bunch of academics who have no idea how to ship anything and it'll also allow us to make the case why cardano's the best crypto currency in the world and why we feel we have a good shot of getting to number one and getting getting the ecosystem to be very dominant and we're also going to fly out the Ethiopian class all the gals who have been training the ones who pass will pending their visas getting cleared we'll be able to come and do a presentation so you can actually see firsthand the output of our education efforts in Africa and our entire Enterprise team is going to be there so if you're curious about how we're doing the blockchain side of things the summit will have those people there so that's a lot of value for five hundred dollar ticket and I feel that people are complaining about these prices either they don't go to cryptocurrency conferences and most of them are useless I or they they're just being a little stingy and you know it's not to make money here it's just to break even and also gives me a chance bringing all my people together I miss them and that's one of the tragedies of running a decentralized company while it has a lot of benefits the downside of running a decentralized company is that you don't get to see people that you've become friendlies every day you know if I had just everybody who worked in the same office come in I'd have my coffee and I'd be able to go door-to-door and say hey what are you working on and you know and we'd be able to have a great conversation go out to lunch go get some drinks together but sometimes I'm a little isolated and I can just talk to them over slack so and I can't travel everywhere I tried last year I went to 30 countries so bring them all together for a big event that's just great and it's really heartwarming and it means I finally get to see everybody again last time I did that was in Portugal in January of 2018 so it's it's simply been too long okay let's see what we got here how is Cardona attacking interoperability cross-chain atomic swaps yeah that's good questions so interoperability needs to be basically two things first you need to be able to move value between chains and second you need to move information between chains so it would be nice that you can query Bitcoin and ask it tell me your state I need to know something about you you know what's what's going on what does this block look like and you can get that information and know with reasonable degree of certainty that that feed of information you're getting is correct because there's events that happen everywhere and like you see financial systems and in the traditional crypto world that if you're running a smart contract might be event-driven and it has to process all those events aggregate them and understand what does that mean for you and that could be a trading contract it could be like if this person dies you know give me the inheritance whatever it might be there's a little factors there so you know when we say interoperability generally we're either talking about I can move a token from one system to another system or I can move information or understand information from one system to another system either the outside world another cryptocurrency or the legacy this world so everybody has an opinion on how to do this and opinions are like Wi-Fi you know Wi-Fi Bluetooth and other protocols aren't necessarily the best protocols they're just the ones that ended up winning and now everybody's using them and there's probably at least one person in those spaces that said mine was better and here are these objective tangible factual reasons why it's better but just like in the VHS versus Betamax or the HD DVD vs. blu-ray or Playstation vs Xbox there's winners or losers in business and in standards and at the end of the day somebody's going to win and so the name of interoperability is be pragmatic so whatever the standard is support that and we're going to do that I but it is probably a good idea to have a reasonable conversation about proposing standards so first off there are two principal consensus algorithms used in the cryptocurrency world there are others but two are proof of stake and proof of work so we have protocols to be interoperable with both classes of systems the proof of stake sidechains and the neat Kapow system so we're going to be advocates of those protocols and we already are and we're going around and saying hey here's an improvement proposal you all should adopt this you get great light clients and you get the ability to talk to each other we'd love to see that happen now there are other things for example there are Dex's for like kyburi and they use a ton of crap they facilitate atomic to proxy and swap so you can lose value there's also protocols like inter ledger and there's even discussions about using the Lightning Network as kind of a universal layer to compatibility system between different Ledger's there's no reason why we can do that so we've assigned a product manager to look at lightning and basically look at all the different proposals that exist and we're in a really fortuitous situation where we have a natural set of nodes to run these types of things namely the state pools so in addition to maintaining state ledger you can also maintain these meta systems like Oracle services or lightning notes and we may be able to achieve interoperability through that layer they also they can act as bridges for inter ledger which is a protocol from ripple and we'll look at these things and you know we'll probably roll them out as soon as Shelley and Gogan around because we'll have enough capab in the ledger and I'll be fairly straightforward to do that now closely-related interoperability is a discussion about metadata and this is really really really important metadata is the is kind of like the secret sauce of your transactions so for example you have two events and they're the same value so there's same type of transaction Bob withdraws 500 dollars from his ATM now doesn't matter you know it's Bob and an ATM is the same structural thing it's going from one unit to another unit pulling it up one case here's the metadata bob does it right next to a restaurant and it happens to be Christmas and his family happens to be in town Bob's taking the family out for dinner for Christmas that's what you would infer from that event more likely than not the next case Bob is pulling five hundred dollars out of an ATM at a known brothel right next to it probably imagine Bob's doing something else no this is the same type of transaction Bob taking his $500 that he owns and just just going with it but the implications of that transaction are very different so what does that mean it means metadata in many cases is more important than the transaction itself so how do we reconcile this well one school of thought says metadata doesn't belong on the blockchain and also it's very personal it's very particular and do we do do we really want to live in a world where you know all this stuff is preserved forever on the other hand if you don't in some way represent the metadata of the transaction on the blockchain well then that means your metadata is no longer immutable audible and time-stamped in which case you can you can move one set of metadata to another set of metadata so you can make the family dinner look like the brothel if you wanted to and whereas Bob may not have the ability to get recourse so you can effectively deep fake the the world into believing that you've done something that maybe he didn't do for another example is the commercial intent mind a transaction what I sent you money it was usually because there was some sort of commercial understanding it's a donation its purchase for products it's a trade for surfaces I give you this Timon my love and again the metadata is basically the story why did I send you that money so if block chains are to be interoperable they do have to for either compliance reasons legal recourse refunds a litany of other commercial understandings has to have a metadata component because when you're moving value between Ledger's the metadata is going to flow with and oftentimes just as important so what are we going to do with Cardona well the very least what we're going to do is allow people to take the hash of the commercial intent of the transaction and do contingent settlement transactions so what the heck is that contingent settlement is where Alice sends something to Bob but Bob doesn't get it until Bob agrees to the terms of service so for example let's say a donation alice is sending X amount of ada to Bob to donate to his organization with some terms and conditions I'll only give you this million dollars if you name your your science building after me for a university for example okay so she'll take that Agreement hash it sign it embed it into the transaction send the agreement to send the transaction to Bob it's it's impending it's contingent and then through a different band probably pub/sub Bob will receive the agreement read it agrees to it hashes it signs it embeds it into the transaction and only when both of those components are there does the transaction settle so what does this mean it means that now that bob has the funds so let's see he doesn't name the building then when Alice can do is go to the court and say Court Bob agreed to do this and she has a contract she has his digital signature and now many many many jurisdictions Wyoming now allow us has legal rights and that's as good as it is and that's metadata has been time-stamped it's auditable it's immutable it lives there now you can systematically construct from this basic primitive arbitrarily complex financial arrangements and in many cases perhaps even automate these financial arrangements and have outsource of all servers that live off chain that coordinate things so you can have a private part of the deal that only certain actors know and then you have a public part which is preserved in that metadata is represented properly so these capabilities will work their way into Cardno and they don't take a lot of effort to do and in their easy to overlay and they work very nicely with smart contracts and instantly it allows you to now have a very elegant system to sign contracts and a very elegant system to tell the story of why you're sending money what you're doing what is this all about and if we did install governance systems like for example you embed these types of transactions into those smart contracts I matched I mentioned earlier then that governance system would have something that work with the arbitrator's there would look at the metadata and say yes clearly you did receive this money to do X and there's no evidence that you did that so we're gonna give Alice her refund okay all right let's look at the rest of questions we got here